Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With all due respect you are misinformed about the entire funding process. What drives up the cost in the urbran areas is special needs that are mandated by law. These special needs are not as prevalant in suburban districts for a variety of reasons therefore the cost per pupil is greatly reduced. Thats what makes up the majority of cost when comparing urban vs suburban spending.
I am not sure who to blame for the larger amount of students with "special needs" but you surely cant blame the kids. If a child has a special situation by law he should get all the services regardless of zip code.
When speaking of special needs I mean ESL,Speech,OT,PT, whatever.
Poverty causes a lot of problems and we just cant overlook these things.
Meh, this is NJ. You gotta wonder how much of that special needs spending is real and how much is there for the purpose of bilking the tax payers. I'm sure some portion of it is real, and I agree, those students should not be overlooked, but the cost to educate a student in Newark is enormous. I wonder how many kids would be diagnosed as "special needs" if the people who lived there were paying for their own education.
Not sure what you mean? Dont you think we could save some money and help out tax payers? I am sure lots of other examples exist just brought up a few that I know of. I am sure everyone would be for it if you could save them money.
Sorry about that....Just thinking about East Brunswick agreeing to merge with New Brunswick made me laugh.
Meh, this is NJ. You gotta wonder how much of that special needs spending is real and how much is there for the purpose of bilking the tax payers. I'm sure some portion of it is real, and I agree, those students should not be overlooked, but the cost to educate a student in Newark is enormous. I wonder how many kids would be diagnosed as "special needs" if the people who lived there were paying for their own education.
The exorbitant cost of special needs education is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about, whether in the suburbs or the cities.
When speaking of special needs I mean ESL,Speech,OT,PT, whatever.
Poverty causes a lot of problems and we just cant overlook these things.
How does poverty cause speech or OT or PT problems? I could see poverty causing behavioral or academic problems but speech, OT and PT are dealing with physical problems.
How does poverty cause speech or OT or PT problems? I could see poverty causing behavioral or academic problems but speech, OT and PT are dealing with physical problems.
Drinking, drug use by mothers in poverty dont help the situations above. No prenatal care are all things that have a negative effect on the child. Believe it not many many mothers are having children while drinking or drugging in the urban areas. This sets back children big time. Its a very sad situation.
Meh, this is NJ. You gotta wonder how much of that special needs spending is real and how much is there for the purpose of bilking the tax payers. I'm sure some portion of it is real, and I agree, those students should not be overlooked, but the cost to educate a student in Newark is enormous. I wonder how many kids would be diagnosed as "special needs" if the people who lived there were paying for their own education.
I wish it was bilking the system because then you wouldnt feel bad for the kids. The fact remains poverty of any kind breeds many many problems regardless if you believe it or not. I have said many times I dont have a problem with Christie's initial "cuts" to education. The thing is lets not paint that picture that Newark kids have the same needs as say Millburn. Its just not true and its naive to even suggest this.
For arguments sake lets take a school in Newark or Perth Amboy vs Cranford. How many ESL teachers do you think Cranford schools have? Maybe one or two at most. Perth Amboy and Newark Schools might have 1 ESL teacher for ever 200 students.
I know many of you dont agree with ESL programs but the fact remains many many childrens first language is not English and they are taking standarized test in English. Therefore its in the students and schools best interest to have these kids learn our "native" language.
Having ESL teachers brings up the cost of all kids in Urban areas vs not needing them in Suburban schools. Thats just language imagine all the other issues.
The exorbitant cost of special needs education is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about, whether in the suburbs or the cities.
I agree but you have to understand that cities have more special education children then suburbs.
Not to mention many of these children that are coming in from other countries are coming in 2 and 3 grade levels below their age. Its not schools jobs to play INS. Schools are supposed to teach whomever they get. The money problems in schools is far reaching and has very little to do with salaries and pension and more to do with poverty and immigration.
I agree but you have to understand that cities have more special education children then suburbs.
Not to mention many of these children that are coming in from other countries are coming in 2 and 3 grade levels below their age. Its not schools jobs to play INS. Schools are supposed to teach whomever they get. The money problems in schools is far reaching and has very little to do with salaries and pension and more to do with poverty and immigration.
Well, there are multiple issues going on in special ed.
In the suburbs, you have parents lawyering up and suing the school districts for all sorts of services. That drives up costs bigtime.
And yes, in the cities, you have kids with various issues that the schools have to deal with before they can even start educating them.
It's easy to forget these days, but all a child is entitled to is that they are able to access the curriculum. It's not a school district's job to solve every single problem, including medical ones, that a child has.
Well, there are multiple issues going on in special ed.
In the suburbs, you have parents lawyering up and suing the school districts for all sorts of services. That drives up costs bigtime.
And yes, in the cities, you have kids with various issues that the schools have to deal with before they can even start educating them.
It's easy to forget these days, but all a child is entitled to is that they are able to access the curriculum. It's not a school district's job to solve every single problem, including medical ones, that a child has.
I understand but I am sure you are aware of the % of kids in urban areas that require IEPs. The cost is nuts and the problems are very very costly. Schools are operating as best as they can considering the situations that exist especially in the urban areas.
I understand but I am sure you are aware of the % of kids in urban areas that require IEPs. The cost is nuts and the problems are very very costly. Schools are operating as best as they can considering the situations that exist especially in the urban areas.
Yes, the costs are nuts. I see a couple of problems from the district side.
There is a conflict of interest when the people doing the evals are also the people creating work for themselves. That needs to be separated out by having independent evaluators who have no financial interest at stake, including getting more eval referrals from said district. There is also a conflict of interest as the more kids that are classified, the more jobs that are created, the more union members are created etc. What do they say, go to a surgeon, get surgery? That kind of thing.
Also, many of the therapies don't have evidence of working. In other words, we don't have clear outcome data that spending this level of $ on these therapies leads to this outcome.
Finally, we are spending too much money on individual cases without evidence. I went to a BOE meeting once where a mom reamed out the board that they cut her child's speech therapy. Sounds horrible and cruel right? Well, yes, until you found out that the child was severely autistic, had never spoken in his life and had received 10 years of intensive speech therapy, both in-home and in-school.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
