What's so great about Dirty Dancing (1987)? (action, Netflix, watched, Patrick Swayze)
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Nothing is inherently great about Dirty Dancing... or about any other movie ever made!
Some people like Dirty Dancing. Others don't. Some films push the buttons of a lot of people. Others are enjoyed only by a comparatively small number of people. That's the nature of subjectivity!
Why must you fixate on this idea that just because you don't like a popular film, that you're either missing something, or everyone else is wrong? I don't care for Dirty Dancing either, but I'm not baffled that others do. They just have different tastes than I.
Sheesh!
Exactly. I honestly don't understand the kind of arrogance that must be involved when someone believes "if I don't like a movie, that must mean it is a bad movie."
There are plenty of critically acclaimed and wildly popular movies that I just don't care for. But my dislike for them doesn't mean that they're bad. It just means that they aren't my cup of tea.
The Godfather, Star Wars, Fight Club, Pulp Fiction, pretty much anything involving superheroes ... none of these trip my trigger. But I acknowledge that they are widely considered great films. And there are plenty of movies that are solidly panned that I LOVE. I could watch Joe Versus the Volcano over and over. But I'm realistic enough to know that just because I like it, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good movie.
Oh I understand that and not every critically acclaimed movie is not my cup of tea either, however, I actually do think Dirty Dancing is actually below par and actually overrated though.
The doctor saw a woman who was pregnant and got an abortion and said "Who is responsible for her", and Johnny said "I am".
How could Johnny possible not think that he just admitted to getting her pregnant, unless he's an idiot? Not once did this cross his mind, as to why the Dad didn't like him.
Then later, when the Dad accuses him of doing it, and Johnny says "Yeah, you would see that", and then leaves. Well duh, you told him you did. How is he not suppose to see that, when you said you did it? It was just really dumb of him I thought.
I know it's a movie and it's suppose to be romantic, but the fact that Johnny keeps painting himself into a corner and not realizing it, causes so many face palms for me, that sticks out. How am I suppose to enjoy the romance and music, when I can't help but face palm Johnny in this situation he makes worse for himself, when all he had do, was just explain.
Johnny identified himself as the responsible person in two senses.:
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1) Johnny, as the chief of the Entertainment Staff, was the official supervisor of Penny. For example, when Neil Kellerman, in the previous week, had wondered about Penny's absence from the dance in the gazebo, Neil had asked Johnny about Penny's whereabouts and had admonished Johnny to discipline her.
2) Johnny, as Penny's friend, had pressured Penny to get an abortion. Johnny had urged Penny to accept Baby's $250, and Johnny's cousin Billy Kostecki had arranged the abortion.
From the second sense, Jake deduced correctly that Johnny was involved -- was "responsible" -- in Penny's getting an abortion.
Neither Jake nor Johnny meant to communicate here about who had made Penny pregnant. Jake simply jumped to that conclusion because he -- like many others -- assumed that Johnny and Penny were a romantic couple
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Jake wouldn't have even cared at that time to know that Johnny didn't knock her up. He still was complicit in the abortion, involved his young daughter in all of it, so that one detail would not have changed his opinion of the man.
Baby tried to explain everything and the father didn't want to hear any of it:
J
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ake Houseman
Was that what my money paid for?
Baby Houseman
I'm sorry. I never meant to lie to you.
Jake Houseman
You're not the person I thought you were, Baby. I'm not sure who you are. I don't want you to have anything to do with those people again.
Baby Houseman
But can’t I just explain?
Jake Houseman
Nothing! You're to have nothing to do with them ever again! I won't tell your mother about this. Right now I'm going to bed. And take that stuff off your face before your mother sees you!
Baby intended to explain:
* Robbie had made Penny pregnant
* Robbie refused to help Penny pay for an abortion
* Penny did not have enough money to pay for an abortion.
* Penny could get an abortion quickly if she got the money.
That explanation would have been truthful, even if it had not satisfied Jake.
The father went through an evolution in the movie regarding his daughter coming of age, and mis-judging people in general. Baby also didn't understand the abortion. She tried to think of every way out of it. Johnny and Penny and the cousin had to explain life from an entirely different perspective than she could ever know in her sheltered world with MONEY.
The way they did all of that serviced the bigger issues in the plot. Baby learning how other people live. The father coming to terms with raising a strong, smart, sensitive daughter who is going to make decisions based on how she views things, not how he does.
Did you miss the big scene where she tells him 'you told me I could be anyone I want, but what you really meant was, if I am like you!' (paraphrased, if that part is in the blog I didn't read that far, that is from memory).
I don't agree with this hypothetical from the bog, but sort of. Imagining how the conversation would go if Baby DID tell him. I do agree it wouldn't have gone anywhere good!
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Baby easily could have corrected her father about that when she talked with him later -- in her "I'm sorry I lied" monologue.
Baby avoided talking with her father about who Penny was having sex with because Baby did not want any such conversation to get around to the question of who she herself was having sex with.
Baby Houseman
By the way, Daddy, Johnny did not have sex with Penny. She got pregnant from Robbie.
Jake Houseman
Thanks for correcting me about that, Baby. By the way, did Johnny have sex with you?
Baby avoided any such conversation with her father about the situation. She limited her conversation to her lying about why she asked for the money. She avoided talking about who was having sex with whom.
Let's not forget Robbie threatened Penny. Said he'd deny it was him to anyone, and who would people believe? A find upstanding young man like himself or that piece of trash? That is when Baby poured a pitcher of water over his head. She had been trying to get him to take responsibility. Penny had FORBIDDEN her OR JOHNNY from telling.
Okay thanks, but I think that the Dad's opinion of Johnny would have changed, cause when the Dad found out the truth later, he told Johnny he was wrong about him. So the opinion would have changed in the Dad therefore.
Plus the daughter didn't actually try to explain. After the Dad said he didn't want to hear it, she just chose not to tell him after. That's not explaining anything. She just gave up.
Okay thanks, but I think that the Dad's opinion of Johnny would have changed, cause when the Dad found out the truth later, he told Johnny he was wrong about him. So the opinion would have changed in the Dad therefore.
No. There was an evolution in the father that had to take place. You are missing key parts of the plot. Part of the evolution was that nice young man totally fooled him. He learned a big lesson in appearances and judging people. Penny forbade anyone to tell anyone that Robbie was the father. Another part you are missing that is critical.
Robbie was stupid enough to go up to Jake at the end, thinking that Jake would 'totally get' how it was ok to fool around with that women. 'We've all been there, right?' Not right. Jake had never and would never treat a woman that way. That is when it all came together for him. He was judging everyone by the wrong metrics.
It's been years since I've seen Dirty Dancing, but here's my perspective, from what I can recall (apologies of some of my memories are inaccurate, I'm gettin' old, ya know):
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Originally Posted by ironpony
But they decide to have sex literally like an hour later, which felt all wrong to me, pacing and mood wise, as if the filmmakers came back into the editing room and were not aware of how close the previous scenario still was.
They were caught up in the moment. Yes, a lot was going on, but both characters were experiencing a LOT of inner turmoil and angst. For Johnny, the fact that he was so upset over Penny could in itself have driven him to want to be comforted; for Baby, well...she was what, 17? Young, caught up in her first love. I think it was all rather easily explainable.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
Another thing is, Johnny tells Baby's dad that he got his friend pregnant, so her friend would not be fired from her job.
I don't recall him ever telling Baby's dad that he was the reason Penny was pregnant. If I remember, he said that he was responsible for her...but he never admitted to being the father.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
But Johnny is constantly trying to seek Baby's dad's approval. He even tells Baby to tell her Dad about them but baby doesn't want to, afraid of disapproval.
Yes, true. Johnny did want the approval of Baby's father, because he admired and respected a man who was in such a hallowed profession (physician). Johnny was constantly putting himself down internally though, and he inwardly believed that he would never measure up to such a high standard.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
However, Johnny is the one who caused the disapproval by lying to Baby's dad. So all Johnny has to do is tell her dad that he lied about getting the woman pregnant so she could keep her job.
Again, he never lied. He didn't attempt to clear up the confusion over what Baby's father thought of him, but (imo) I think the instigating factor was that he expected her father to have that opinion of him anyway, because he held such a low opinion of himself.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
Even when her dad tells Johnny that's the reason why he doesn't approve of him, Johnny responds by saying "Yeah would think that wouldn't you".
And again...it's what he expected. He didn't try to clear up the truth with explanations because - as I see it - he probably felt that any explanation would go unheeded anyway...but more importantly, he was expecting that response, and he got it. In a sort of strange psychological way, he almost wanted to get that response from her father, as it verified Johnny's inner belief that he really was no good, not worthy of anything. Personally I found this to be a rather critical part of the movie, pointing out how good we humans are at judging others based upon their looks, vocation, or other reasons, and being blinded by that to not see the true person inside.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
Maybe it's better if Baby was the one to explain but she doesn't do it either!
And again...I think Baby doesn't really try because she already knows that her father won't believe anything she tells him, particularly after she asked him for money but didn't disclose why, and realizes that she has, for the first time in her life, lied to her father and broken that trust. That alone crushes her.
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Originally Posted by ironpony
So what is about this movie that is has become such a classic?
Many many things...the time period takes many older generations back to the 60s; the wonderful throwback music, the clothing, the way people acted and spoke to each other. The story of a teen's first love; the story of a hardluck character who could never see his own self as good...someone who has struggled for years over it, until that one person comes into his life to show him that he is good, he is worthy, he is just as admirable as anyone around him.
I think this movie can be directly compared to Saturday Night Fever. Both movies feature good looking, charasmatic stars in their prime who dance really well to soundtracks that become very popular. The big stars here are the main characters and the soundtacks. The plots and subplots surrounding the main characters are just filler between dance/music scenes. In my opinion, SNF is a much better movie in every way, including the plot and subplots which at least held my interest. I found myself just waiting for the movie to end when I saw DD in the theater, and really didn't care about the plot enough to analyze it. (I saw both when they came out).
Oh I understand that and not every critically acclaimed movie is not my cup of tea either, however, I actually do think Dirty Dancing is actually below par and actually overrated though.
I know you're judging these things on their artistic merit, but this might be another "you had to be there" movie for you. Dirty Dancing came out when I was in middle school, and it was a staple movie for slumber parties and Saturday afternoons for the next few years. It's the kind of movie that I'd stop to watch if it popped up on cable. I'm not the only one who had the cassette of the soundtrack and still says, "Nobody puts Baby in the corner." Maybe it's not the greatest cinematic experience, but it's a movie that many people are fond of.
Dirty Dancing came out when I was in college. I thought it was OK, but nothing particularly special. However, what held my interest was not the characters or the dancing or the story, but the filming location. Though it was set in the Catskills of New York, it was actually filmed at a lakefront hotel in southwestern Virginia -- in the very town where my father was born and raised. I've stayed at the hotel a number of times, and seeing it on the big screen was (and still is) a special experience for me.
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