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Old 10-18-2023, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Montreal
2,082 posts, read 1,127,442 times
Reputation: 2312

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Ah the "McGill Bubble". I once had a colleague who was a McGill graduate who told me that "you do not have to know French in Montreal". He was probably referring to such English speaking enclaves here and there. Prior to that, I had actually thought that everyone had to know French in order to survive in Montreal. I mean the city is Montreal and not "Mount Royal" right?


Yes, the idea of survival in and of itself is rather comical when everybody is aware that the pressure to engage in French in English speakers is nil, especially students from outside Quebec.

What I dislike about the approach is the sort of Robin Hood take the CAQ put forward. The act that Canadians students are bound to pay more in order to prop up French Universities in order to right the discrepancies is not a great job of accounting. It also does a disservice to the promotion of Quebec and Montreal as higher ed destinations. The French and Belgian deal is, on the other hand a mutual arrangement which is a more profitable enticement on all sides.

Mc Gill and Concordia should maybe have done a bit more to include a requisite French dimension to the curriculum over the years, and insist on the value of a bilingual component instead of counting on the status quo being the comfortable option. I think Legault may do a 180 on this, it has become a predictable reaction lately…
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Old 10-19-2023, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Good article if people can read French or have a good translation platform.

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/chr...-le-mepris.php
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Old 10-19-2023, 08:29 AM
 
3,462 posts, read 2,786,747 times
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Is there a sense among Francophones that their universities, being newer than McGill (Laval excepted), lack its cache? I wouldn’t be surprised if some of dreaming of having their own Sorbonne or Sciences Po.
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Old 10-19-2023, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
Is there a sense among Francophones that their universities, being newer than McGill (Laval excepted), lack its cache? I wouldn’t be surprised if some of dreaming of having their own Sorbonne or Sciences Po.
I think looking at it from the perspective of jealousy or envy is the wrong lens.

It's all about (admittedly politically-charged) numbers at this point: the number of dollars going to anglophone vs francophone universities, the number of anglophone students vs francophone students and how these are trending, the number of students from Quebec vs students from outside Quebec, the cost of a university education in Quebec vs the cost in other provinces, etc.
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Old 10-19-2023, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
544 posts, read 901,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Good article if people can read French or have a good translation platform.

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/chr...-le-mepris.php
Good article. It even has the obligatory references to what happened over a hundred and fifty years ago by people who are all dead to people who are all dead, as well as a statement on how poorly Francophones are treated in Ontario. Bravo!
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Old 10-19-2023, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leroythelion View Post
Good article. It even has the obligatory references to what happened over a hundred and fifty years ago by people who are all dead to people who are all dead, as well as a statement on how poorly Francophones are treated in Ontario. Bravo!
How and why McGill became such an academic powerhouse (and on whose dime through various periods of history) is relevant to the discussion, is it not?
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Old 10-19-2023, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
544 posts, read 901,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
How and why McGill became such an academic powerhouse (and on whose dime through various periods of history) is relevant to the discussion, is it not?
McGill is where it is because of 200 years of vision, building, collaboration, networking, recruiting top notch researchers in all fields, and high academic standards. It's about more than just throwing money at it. Not all without controversy of course, but it takes generations to build a reputation. Some UdeM departments have some of that but your graduates have to go out in the world and show others what you can do. Graduate school, post docs, professorships, jobs in biotech, engineering, manufacturing in Canada, the US, South-east Asia, Europe. Staying "chez-nous" doesn't do anything for a school's rep in the outside world and the CAQ's contradictory policies of isolationism and the desire to increase the reputation of the Francophone universities is a classic example of how out of touch Legault really is.
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Old 10-19-2023, 01:09 PM
 
Location: In Little Ping's Maple Dictatorship
335 posts, read 154,532 times
Reputation: 880
I have said the same thing about the CRTC's CanCon rules as I do about French language laws:

If a culture needs laws to protect it, it is no longer worth protecting.

A culture is a reflection of the values and traditions of its people, be it language, customs, holidays or religion. The only real protection a culture has is a populace who wishes to continue expressing and participating in the elements that make up the culture itself. Once the majority of the people no longer care to maintain the culture, the culture begins its inevitable spiral into insignificance and obscurity, and there is no law that exists to prevent it from happening.
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Old 10-19-2023, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickIlhenney View Post
I have said the same thing about the CRTC's CanCon rules as I do about French language laws:

If a culture needs laws to protect it, it is no longer worth protecting.

A culture is a reflection of the values and traditions of its people, be it language, customs, holidays or religion. The only real protection a culture has is a populace who wishes to continue expressing and participating in the elements that make up the culture itself. Once the majority of the people no longer care to maintain the culture, the culture begins its inevitable spiral into insignificance and obscurity, and there is no law that exists to prevent it from happening.
Totally viable cultures can become vulnerable if they get submerged by much larger groups though, especially if the latter have political power behind them.

No one questions the viability of Danish culture but how would they fare if they were merged with Germany and its 100 million people?

It's like saying Michael Phelps can't swim when he's got both his legs encased in cement.

Over the past 50 years, Quebec has elected every single time without exception a government that supports pro-French language policies. Even the Liberals who aren't always keen on favouring French over English, have had to cater to this sentiment when they have gotten elected. When they haven't, they've been thrashed.

This is pretty good evidence that most people in Quebec care about their language and culture.
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Old 10-19-2023, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,973 posts, read 5,770,752 times
Reputation: 4738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Good article if people can read French or have a good translation platform.

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/chr...-le-mepris.php

It is a good article. I translated bit by bit on Google Translate to read the entire article. The feeling of the author and perhaps of a great many French Quebecois is that the British, after subduing Quebec, made themselves lords of the land to be looked up to. They deemed only English language and culture were supreme and even created a little community which they thought would never be spoiled by French. That little community evolved into the present day McGill Bubble. The British did something similar in Hong Kong when they settled Victoria Peak and deemed it a piece of Britain that would be forever untouched by boorish Chinese language and culture . The French in French Indochina were not innocent either. In present day Vietnam, there is a city called Dalat high up in the mountains, which was founded exclusively by the French lords who wanted a cooler, more refreshing place to themselves. I suppose my point is this legislation and drive to amend the higher education system stems from years of imperialistic domination by one small group over the majority population. Still, that imprint left by that small group will likely not go away, English will still be spoken in Montreal, but at least no one can say it is the "must learn" language anymore.
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