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For the purpose of opposing draconian Francophone-only laws and Quebec seperatism, obviously.
My point about Allophones is that they can become part of the Anglo culture. This is all in response to your earlier post; "I dont include the Allophones in my complaints about Quebec as they never had a culture here to begin with and arent really seeing what once was cease to exist". You also used the term "generations" so I was specifying that even within a generation it is possible.
I think many Anglos in Quebec that are still there are still there for a reason, because they're the sort of people who value their heritage and presence there. I think most of the ones who'd leave for convenience or economic reasons have probably already left.
Now, if the laws changed for the more draconian, or if Quebec separated, then that could spark a massive Anglo exodus indeed.
We've tried opposing draconian language legislation in the past and it just gets adopted anyway, It was even brought before the United Nations = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_d...anguage_policy
My intent with the Allophone statement was to say that some one who just arrives in Quebec from India as an example is not going to have the same feelings toward a disappearing Anglo culture as some one like my wife who is the last remaining resident of her families 7 generations of Anglo's in the Eastern townships (Now called L'Estrie),these new Allophones are going to look at the situation as just moving to another country never knowing much about the Anglo history of Quebec or caring for that matter..
I dont agree with your assessment of why Anglos are still here as most i speak to are only staying here because of jobs or other forms of entrenchment, staying here to value their heritage and presence ? i'm just not seeing it
We've tried opposing draconian language legislation in the past and it just gets adopted anyway, It was even brought before the United Nations = Legal dispute over Quebec's language policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My intent with the Allophone statement was to say that some one who just arrives in Quebec from India as an example is not going to have the same feelings toward a disappearing Anglo culture as some one like my wife who is the last remaining resident of her families 7 generations of Anglo's in the Eastern townships (Now called L'Estrie),these new Allophones are going to look at the situation as just moving to another country never knowing much about the Anglo history of Quebec or caring for that matter..
I dont agree with your assessment of why Anglos are still here as most i speak to are only staying here because of jobs or other forms of entrenchment, staying here to value their heritage and presence ? i'm just not seeing it
Well if that's really the truth, then maybe the PQ supporters deserve to have their French-only state, if they're the only ones who at all value their own heritage or the continuity of their own historical presence in the region.
But my more optimistic side would like to believe that isn't the case and that Anglos in Quebec, in Montreal in particular, value the part they play in the city's culture and ensuring it remains a cosmopolitan, bilingual, and Canadian city.
I feel like an Allophone who at least grows up in Quebec would share some of the same sentiments. Maybe not the person who arrived from India, but their son or daughter perhaps.
Well if that's really the truth, then maybe the PQ supporters deserve to have their French-only state, if they're the only ones who at all value their own heritage or the continuity of their own historical presence in the region.
But my more optimistic side would like to believe that isn't the case and that Anglos in Quebec, in Montreal in particular, value the part they play in the city's culture and ensuring it remains a cosmopolitan, bilingual, and Canadian city.
I feel like an Allophone who at least grows up in Quebec would share some of the same sentiments. Maybe not the person who arrived from India, but their son or daughter perhaps.
That's an incredibly naive sentiment to have. Many anglos value their history and culture in the province but in the end people have to do what's the best for themselves and their families.
Most anglo's who move out of quebec tend to do so with a heavy heart. Anglo's have tried working within the system to change but it doesn't seem to have done much and it may be too late now. Unlike other people in certain parts of the world violence or extreme protest has never been something the anglo community has turned to (random nutbars not counted) and when you're a small minority your vote and political clout can only go so far.
Well if that's really the truth, then maybe the PQ supporters deserve to have their French-only state, if they're the only ones who at all value their own heritage or the continuity of their own historical presence in the region.
But my more optimistic side would like to believe that isn't the case and that Anglos in Quebec, in Montreal in particular, value the part they play in the city's culture and ensuring it remains a cosmopolitan, bilingual, and Canadian city.
I feel like an Allophone who at least grows up in Quebec would share some of the same sentiments. Maybe not the person who arrived from India, but their son or daughter perhaps.
Its not that the Anglos dont feel proud of their heritage in Quebec its more to do with being made to feel like a second class citizen, some one who isnt welcome or wanted,some one who sees the government doing everything it legally can to be rid of you, how long are you going to put up with it? at some point its heritage be damned i'm moving to a place that more represents my culture as Quebec is indeed a French only state and its about time they took their precious language and left Canada..
My constant whining about the issue may seem a bit illogical from a Toronto perspective but long term Anglos living in Quebec know exactly where i'm coming from.
To be fair, if we are going to count immigrants who feel more comfortable in English as "Anglophones" and immigrants more comfortable in French as "Francophones", I'd argue in that case, Greater Montreal may have a greater Anglophone portion than Greater Ottawa has Francophones. It would be very close.
Greater Montreal is close to 70% francophone. So the 30% left over for allophones and anglophones there is still lower than the 35% francophones in Ottawa's metro. Plus, not all allophones in Montreal prefer to use English. Many allophones in Montreal now speak their native language PLUS French, and many now little or no English. As well, there are some allophones in the Ottawa area that are more comfortable in French.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum237
Also, about your comments re service in French in Ontario versus service in English in Quebec, are the parts of Ontario you're using as your example all areas with a significant French presence? Because I wouldn't expect it to be easy to get French service in Toronto for instance, but on the same token I wouldn't expect it to be easy to get English service in Quebec City. If Francophones in Ottawa can't get French service I'd say that is a problem
I was talking about service in Ottawa only. Nobody complains about French service in Toronto and you'd have to a bit of a dummy to do that.
Funny how the expression hardliners always used was how they want "Montreal to be as french as toronto is english", despite having no where near the same language ratio balance.
Funny how the expression hardliners always used was how they want "Montreal to be as french as toronto is english", despite having no where near the same language ratio balance.
It's usually Quebec vs. Ontario that they use. The ratio is not identical either but there isn't as big a disparity.
No, at least as not what i'm referring to. Montreal held and still does hold a special significance to quebec nationalists. Montreal is the heart and engine of quebec as toronto is to ontario (and now canada to an extent), as well as it being to their chagrin also the heart and capital of english quebec.
By making montreal as french as toronto is english that solves the whole anglophone problem, because there really only exists an anglo problem in montreal in quebec. That's why 99% of these language laws are based around what's happening in montreal be it in restaurants or street signs, stores etc. If montreal the crown jewel of quebec can become a fully francophone city, that is a dream many of them have and they detest the bilingual nature of the city. Again going back to the toronto "uni-language" reference and why can't we be as french as they are english? This is also going back to the centuries old rivalry between the 2 cities which reflected much of the anglo vs francophone debate in the country as whole over the many decades.
No, at least as not what i'm referring to. Montreal held and still does hold a special significance to quebec nationalists. Montreal is the heart and engine of quebec as toronto is to ontario (and now canada to an extent), as well as it being to their chagrin also the heart and capital of english quebec.
By making montreal as french as toronto is english that solves the whole anglophone problem, because there really only exists an anglo problem in montreal in quebec. That's why 99% of these language laws are based around what's happening in montreal be it in restaurants or street signs, stores etc. If montreal the crown jewel of quebec can become a fully francophone city, that is a dream many of them have and they detest the bilingual nature of the city. Again going back to the toronto "uni-language" reference and why can't we be as french as they are english? This is also going back to the centuries old rivalry between the 2 cities which reflected much of the anglo vs francophone debate in the country as whole over the many decades.
I don't dispute that the issue is preventing English from "taking over" in Montreal but that doesn't change the fact that that's not what is usually said. When Bill 101 was tabled it was said that the goal was making Quebec as French as Ontario is English.
Ontario and Quebec are different in that in Quebec the largest city is the one with the large minority, whereas the second city has little of the language minority's presence.
In Ontario the largest city is the one with the tiny language minority presence, whereas the second city (Ottawa) has a large language minority presence, and also happens to be the capital of the entire country.
Shame on you for interrupting this unanimous circle jerk/bukkake with Quebec and francophones as the target in the centre!
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