Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wasn't comparing montreal to ottawa directly as Montreal's anglo pop is indeed larger than ottawa's french pop. only that there is an attempted element of bilingualism.
Also i believe it depends on what region of ottawa you are in. In some of the restaurants i noticed a decent amount of french service with several french patrons not hesitating to address their servers in french first.
My main point was in response to the poster above of how you can't equate ontario's language policy to that in quebec as english is not enforced nearly to the degree or severity that french is in quebec.
I wasn't comparing montreal to ottawa directly as Montreal's anglo pop is indeed larger than ottawa's french pop. only that there is an attempted element of bilingualism.
.
Montreal is a much bigger city than Ottawa, so in sheer numbers there are more anglos in Montreal for sure.
But as far as population share they are about the same. Both cities are about 15-20% range for the minority (francophones in Ottawa, anglophones in Montreal).
But Ottawa's metro is much more francophone: Metro Ottawa is 35% francophone, which is double the anglo ratio for Montreal's metro (17% approx.).
Bottom line is that Ottawa businesses have a large share of their potential customers who are francophones, but they do a horrible job of serving them in their language compared to how Montreal does in English.
Most francophones I know in Ottawa (and also most people from Gatineau who go to Ottawa) don't dare to ask for service in French in Ottawa. They just open the discussion in English right away. Those for whom it is important to get served in French who can't speak in English simply do their stuff in Gatineau and rarely cross over the bridge.
My main point was in response to the poster above of how you can't equate ontario's language policy to that in quebec as english is not enforced nearly to the degree or severity that french is in quebec.
You're dealing with two very different situations in the provinces. Francophones have historically always been a small minority in Ontario about 4% today. Anglophones in qubec are about 8% but as has been pointed out by another poster, the issues of separatism and quebec nationalism and its inherent laws and culture that came from it, created a large exodus of anglophones from quebec. They compromised a much larger percentage of the Quebec population some 40-50 years ago and for years before that historically. They played a very large role in qubecs history and its development.
So the rights and roles of english speakers and speaking in qubec society has been reduced and continues to be from what it once was. While franco-ontarians have always been a small group living in english ontario, which is probably why they don't expect too much.
You're dealing with two very different situations in the provinces. Francophones have historically always been a small minority in Ontario about 4% today. Anglophones in qubec are about 8% but as has been pointed out by another poster, the issues of separatism and quebec nationalism and its inherent laws and culture that came from it, created a large exodus of anglophones from quebec. They compromised a much larger percentage of the Quebec population some 40-50 years ago and for years before that historically. They played a very large role in qubecs history and its development.
So the rights and roles of english speakers and speaking in qubec society has been reduced and continues to be from what it once was. While franco-ontarians have always been a small group living in english ontario, which is probably why they don't expect too much.
This is a bit of a snowjob.
Francophones have been in Ontario since the late 1600s - early 1700s.
They once made up as much as 15% of Ontario's population.
They were once the majority of the population in Ottawa. At some points in the 19th century when Ottawa (Bytown) was a rough and tumble lumber town the French Canadians from the Ontario side of the river would meet the anglos from Hull on the Quebec side of the river on the bridge to fight.
The historic presences of Anglo-Quebecers and Franco-Ontarians are more analogous than you and many others realize. The main difference is that Franco-Ontarians were never a "dominant minority" in the socio-economic, and that they subjected to assimilationist policies designed to make the minority into a carbon copy of the majority.
In Quebec, there have been restrictions on English but these were aimed at preventing the minority from imposing its language on the majority. Basically, preventing anglos from forcing francophones to speak and use English all the time.
They weren't about forcing anglophones in Quebec to become francophones in their personal lives. Which is what Ontario was doing - attempting to turn francophones into anglophones. They got roughly two third of the way there. Today there are 1.5 million people of French Canadian origin in Ontario but only 500,000 francophones.
Tell me why with the english population of quebec essentially truncated from its peak they are still trying to impose more language laws?
Is this still about the minority imposing its language on the majority or about ridding quebec of its last vestiges of english? You brought up a good point about the "dominant minority" element i feel like the quebec goverment right now and for years perhaps is essentially on a revenge vedetta against the time when the english quebecers dominated many things like the busisness and banking industry in qubec.
Frankly the fact that english qubecers were very successful in qubec for many years shouldn't be something held against them nor should that history be wiped off the books. Perhaps there were some wrongs in the past in ontario but this is not the 19th century anymore this is the 21st century and "language-cide" should not be tolerated.
Tell me why with the english population of quebec essentially truncated from its peak they are still trying to impose more language laws?
Is this still about the minority imposing its language on the majority or about ridding quebec of its last vestiges of english? You brought up a good point about the "dominant minority" element i feel like the quebec goverment right now and for years perhaps is essentially on a revenge vedetta against the time when the english quebecers dominated many things like the busisness and banking industry in qubec.
I think it's more about preventing the bad old days from coming back.
In any event, I'd say that the current situation is really not that bad. There are some irritants for sure that are part of life where significant majorities and minorities co-exist. Some people deny it exists but there is a small minority fringe in the anglo community that still longs for the good old days when francophones would all "speak English when spoken to" and switch to English as soon as an anglo was within earshot. I think this group has declined greatly and is still in decline, but they are still around and I see them in action. The angry anglos are also getting more new recruits from other parts of Canada and abroad than they used to.
Tell me why with the english population of quebec essentially truncated from its peak
It should be stated that it self-truncated and chose to move of its own free will, and was not assimilated on site (like many of the francophones in the ROC were).
People like to dramatize a lot but it wasn't like the great migration after India's independence when people feared for their lives.
Lots of anglos like jambo are still living in Quebec (and reasonably happy there I guess) and others have moved on to greener pastures.
Anglos have always moved to and from Quebec (mostly from) and this didn't start in the 1960s.
The English minority in Quebec City completely shrank starting in the 19th century - this had nothing to do with the PQ, Bill 101, or Pauline Marois.
Same with the Eastern Townships where the decline started way before the 1960s.
Is this still about the minority imposing its language on the majority or about ridding quebec of its last vestiges of english? You brought up a good point about the "dominant minority" element i feel like the quebec goverment right now and for years perhaps is essentially on a revenge vedetta against the time when the english quebecers dominated many things like the busisness and banking industry in qubec.
Frankly the fact that english qubecers were very successful in qubec for many years shouldn't be something held against them nor should that history be wiped off the books. Perhaps there were some wrongs in the past in ontario but this is not the 19th century anymore this is the 21st century and "language-cide" should not be tolerated.
Good points and yes the Quebecs governments efforts to eradicate all things English should not be tolerated but for those of us here theres not much we can do about it, we became bilingual, and watched our numbers go from 30% to 8% and still Bill101 needs to be toughened up, more language police need to be hired, and the government seems to enact any laws it wants with impunity.
At this point theres only one option for unhappy Anglo's in Quebec =Leave, and for any Anglo thinking of coming to Quebec? = dont.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
