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Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,434,531 times
Reputation: 4611
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Originally Posted by Rapunzll
Unh huh.............. Sounds to me like you probably do have an idea how far from him you were. Following too close can cause an accident. I usually slow way down when someone does that to me, if tapping my brakes doesn't do the trick.
Instead of tapping my breaks, if someone climbs up on my a$$, I flash my parking lights,(who's going to know the difference?) it's much more safe than slowing down or cause the vehicle to jolt.
I'll guarantee that the person behind you wil get the message and back off.
As communities run out of money, some try to make it up in part through traffic fines. Apparently the police department gets some portions of the fines that are levied. If true, that is a really stupid policy.
However certain communities have developed a reputation for issuing BS tickets just to get money. They will offer a plea bargain for something like double parking that involves no points but a higher fine. If they are allowing people to plea to double parking for a speeding ticket, it is not law enforcement it is just another tax for driving through that community - or maybe you could call it extortion.
That is certainly what it felt like to me. I felt like I was strong armed by traffic cop. And that day in court there was at least a dozen people who like me was stopped by the same cop, same day. $175 x 12... quite a nice sum of money extra everyday.
Maybe it is ironic to you that I as a law student would say that, but it's really not that complicated. The statute you have so graciously provided leaves a lot of the discretition in the officer and while most of the time it does not get abused, there are times and circumstances that don't warrant it. Yes you are correct, UNDER SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, a reasonable and prudent officer can estimate the distance and time in between cars, but maybe you read over the part that indicated that I was pulled over by a police officer for following HIM too closely. A reasonable/prudent police officer is less likely to be able to estimate time and distance when he is in front of me as opposed to behind me.
And while YOU may feel there are too many good tickets out there unfortunetly there are some bad cops out there. I am a young black female and I was driving a convertible mustang with personalized plates going at least 15 miles UNDER the speed limit. So, while in the little bubble of a world that you live in that may not seem likely, in the world I live in called REALITY I see it more often than I'd like to. I don't care what generalizations you have about lawyers and law students quite frankly. It is of no importance to me. Growing up my parents always taught me that you can't be everybody's friend.
And you being a young black female driving a convertible mustang with personalized plates means what? And you're bragging about being a "law student"?
A reasonable/prudent police officer is less likely to be able to estimate time and distance when he is in front of me as opposed to behind me.
Any idiot can look in his rearview mirror, note a reference point and have a pretty good idea, in time and velocity, of how close is too close for the car behind him. Even a police officer on his way to work who can't see the bumper of the car behind him in the rear-view mirror, doing 50 down I-94 in rush-hour traffic. That's too close. There are MANY laws that are subjective. That's one reason we have lawyers. And it never ceases to amaze me how many people go to court, tell their story and get a reduced fine or get their ticket dismissed because the magistrate felt sorry for them, usually with the consent of the police officer. They walk out of court thinking they "won" and brag about how they "beat" the cop in court. Those are the kinds of morons who will get another ticket for the same violation and blame the cop.
And before those people get too cocky, they should know that when you go before a magistrate, the COP can appeal the decision just like YOU can, to a judge at a formal hearing. They just never (or rarely) do it because contrary to popular belief, they dont CARE what happens in traffic court 99% of the time, just like they didnt CARE what your race was when you drove your car into their trunk or blew by them at 60 in a 35. Don't be so narcissistic, it's not all about you. And when it comes to traffic tickets, it's seldom about "you".
I'm not sure if you're just not understanding the original post, but the whole point is that these officers are obviously trying to pull people over for following too close. The original poster who I responded to was also pulled over for the same thing by a POLICE officer for following HIM too closely. If you just read back the original post I replied to (by small coin) you will clearly see that. I know in the bigger picture this has nothing to do with me "per se." Like a previous post stated tickets are obviously a great source of revenue for many communities. I realize the options that I have as well as the officer and yes I realize the fact that he doesn't care what happens. This is blatant in the fact that when you fight a ticket most times you get the fine, which is usually considerably higher than the original citation with fine. This is not a coincidence; they know that people want to get out the points more than anything, which is why people have a false sense of victory when they "beat" the points. This is very clear. What I am merely saying is that when I know that I didn't do anything wrong I am not going to concede unless I have no other choice. The rest of your post is pointless. I am very respectful of the law; getting cocky gets you nowhere except maybe in jail. This I understand. I admit that yes I have tailed people before, but this was not one of those times. Tailing a cop is just ridiculous. I know I drive a cop magnet car so to tail a police officer makes no sense. It this was just another motorist like myself then maybe your arguments would be justified, but considering the facts they're not.
BurtsBess: I do thank you for your reply to my post. I think you know very well what I mean. Certain cars are admittedly cop magnets. I think this is common knowledge especially considering the plates as well. Me being a law student is just a fact like ALL the other facts I stated. Bragging would have been me alluding to something like this "and I'm a law student and I am so much better than..." I am proud to be in law school because I have worked very hard to get where I am in life just like you, but lets not confuse the two things.
I'm not sure what profession you're in, but this is what I have dealt with before. It's so crazy, because on here I state several facts in a sentence and I am labeled as pulling the "race card." After I got this ticket I talked to an attorney in the firm I work, who is a white male, and he just came and said it probably happened because I'm black. I NEVER even alluded to this; I was focusing on my car as being the reason.To be honest, that kind of blew my mind because I've never really heard a white male tell me that something happened to be because I'm black, or anybody for that matter. He also told me that the city I was pulled over in has a KNOWN reputation for this. It didn't make me happy when he said this b/c my thoughts don't automatically default to racism when I experience negative things. Now, here I merely responded to an original post by small coin to let him/her know that they were not alone.
I am new to this cite, but I assumed everyone on here was from planet earth. I'm sure we have all been treated one way or another, whether it be positive or negative, because of something. It could be age, sexual orientation, weight, sex, race, religious preference, etc. This is true no matter what race you are. Try to look at the bigger picture of what I'm saying. Even considering something like what's going on in CA with Proposal 8. How many gay/lesbian people do you think have probably been discriminated against because of that one fact? Probably a lot. The point is that this happens. Do we use it as a crutch and give up? Absolutely not, but sometimes we have to acknowledge it.
I would like if everyone could have an open mind and not just focus on the one fact that I stated. My post was not bragging, whining, or looking for sympathy. I was merely offering support to a previous poster and looking for others who maybe have been subject to the same thing. My goal was to meet others, like myself, who have been pulled over by a police officer for following HIM too closely. I understand and agree that yes it is wrong to follow motorist too closely; something I have admittedly done. The point is that this was not just your average motorist this was a cop I was behind. Maybe if you focus on that one fact you will understand my frustration. Who is their right mind would follow a cop too close? I'd venture to say nobody. Most people if anything try to stay as far back as possible or get over if they can. So, if anyone has experienced what I've experienced and would like to offer tips on how they fought the ticket, if applicable, then please do so. All others, don't bother replying if you just want to bash me. That's not why I'm here. I respect the fact that everyone won't agree with me and I am always willing to be the bigger person and say "lets agree to disagree." Thank you
Actually you did. If I got a ticket I know for a fact I wouldn't include the "single" fact that I an a white male. You DID play it.
I agree with the above (I cut out the childish remarks, and just left the important parts.), and you bringing up your race and gender and then jumping all over another poster when they call you on it is small and idiotic. I fail to see how jumping into a condescending and confrontational mode in your posts is going to win anybody over into thinking you are innocent here. To call another poster Ignorant because she so happens to catch your subtle innuendo that this was a racially motivated stop and ticket is foolish. I would bet this is the same attitude you pulled out when the cop stopped you.
Oh and bydand: I am certainly not trying to make anyone think I am innocent. When I go to court in two weeks what you and driller1 think won't matter unfortunetly I will not have to plead my case in front of either of you.
To get the complete picture I just laid out ALL the facts leaving nothing out. Maybe that's just a habit from work. In the field I work in you list the facts; all may not be dispositive, but I list them. It is up to you to draw your own conclusions. I think it's sad that you think when I was pulled over I had a racially motivated attitude towards the officer.Is that what YOU think of black people? I gave the utmost respect to the officer and answered all of his questions. I didn't get to law school b/c of luck; I do have common sense. Like I said in the previous post if you would have read it, I assumed it was probably my car which is also a VERY bright color. I am not all over driller1, I respect her opinion. Her and I obviously won't see eye-to-eye and that's fine. It's crazy how 100 people can read something and get 100 different interpretations, but that's life bydand and you being my elder can appreciate that. My gender and my race, no matter how you try to slice, are what they are. I cannot change it; well I guess I could, but we won't go there...lol We all have some sort of steroetypes, positive or negative, that affect our judgment bydand. I'm not looking to start a race war. Those are just the facts and whether or not they are relevant in this fact pattern is arguable.
I just have one last parting thought then I will be done b/c I have to study: Bydand, driller1, and others - Have you ever met someone or observed someone and before they even opened their mouth formed an opinion of what you thought they were all about, be it good or bad? I will be honest and say yes I have.
I just have one last parting thought then I will be done b/c I have to study: Bydand, driller1, and others - Have you ever met someone or observed someone and before they even opened their mouth formed an opinion of what you thought they were all about, be it good or bad? I will be honest and say yes I have.
Absolutely! It is human nature to do so, based on past experiences you hope to gain a faster insight to a new individual or at least have some form of mental "playing field".
Also to clear up something I said in my earlier post. I did NOT intent to imply that you might of had a racially motivated response to the officer. I intended it to mean you might have jumped into a condescending attitude with the officer based on the speed in which you jumped to a condescending attitude with those on this forum.
The only reason certain cars are "admittedly cop magnets" (admitted by whom, I don't know) is because certain cars are more likely to attract an idiot driver as an owner or leasee. You're a lot more likely to see someone speeding in a car built for speed than in a minivan. I've been a police officer for a long time and I don't recall "hunting" for a traffic violations based on what kind of car I was looking at. A minivan speeding 10 over and weaving in traffic was just as likely to be stopped as a Ford GT speeding 10 over and weaving in traffic. And certainly just as likely to be stopped for "following too closely".
If I saw sportscar model that is commonly stolen being driven by a 15 or 16 year-old kid and the driver or passengers kept staring at me, guess who's getting pulled over for driving 5 over or for failing to signal? This is what you pay the police for. You don't pay them to "treat everyone the same". You pay them to spot suspicious activity and act on it within the law.
As far as the cop allegedly hitting the brakes to stop someone for "following too closely", I'm going to choose to believe there's more to the story than that since I'm only hearing one side. There are far too many good violations out there to have to manufacture them. Even if I wanted to do a pretextual traffic stop, I've never, in over 20 years, had to manufacture a reason for a stop.
Quote:
This is blatant in the fact that when you fight a ticket most times you get the fine, which is usually considerably higher than the original citation with fine.
The fact is that most people who go to traffic court are trying to either get a break that they didn't deserve or because they want to lie their way out of a ticket. You SHOULD get the fine most times when you fight a ticket, because most times you're wrong. And I've also been to traffic court many times. Usually the fine is either the same or less than the original charge. Most times, when you get into court costs in addition to the fine, it's because you waited until there was a default judgement before you showed up in court. I'm using "you" generically here. And many times the violation is reduced so that points aren't applied by the Secretary of State. Traffic Court is FULL of people who don't want to take responsibility of their actions. And if you're charged with a no points violation that has a fine which is higher than your original violation, just plead responsible to the original violation if you don't want to pay. Personally, I don't care if traffic enforcement is used to generate revenue as long as the tickets are legitimate. What I will admit is that some officers, and that's very few, write some chicken$hit tickets. That's not to say they're not legitimate violations, just violations that I personally wouldn't write. Those officers are way outnumbered by drivers who think that stop signs are suggestions or that a yellow light means "hurry up". I'd much rather have people who can't drive the speed limit pay for municipal projects than to have a city income tax or have my property tax increase. Call it a "speed tax" if you want.
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What I am merely saying is that when I know that I didn't do anything wrong I am not going to concede unless I have no other choice.
I would guess that the ratio of clueless drivers who didn't even know they screwed up, to cops who made mistakes and issued a ticket that wasn't justified is something like 50:1 probably even much greater in favor of the cops. That's assuming the drivers actually DIDN'T know "the light was red" as opposed to those who are just lying. I know cops and I know the huge majority of them won't write a ticket if there's any doubt, even though the standard is "reason to believe". And most cops won't even write a ticket if the driver has a good excuse or even legitimately didn't know they were in violation.
I believe that it's more likely that the cop was pissed off that you were on his bumper and showed you his brake lights to wake you up. In other words, I believe you were probably in violation before he hit his brakes. And if I'm wrong, sorry, but traffic court, like prison, is full of people who "didn't do anything wrong". ANd this is not me being cynical, this is just me basing my opinion on many, many years of experience as a policeman and as a driver.
and the: AND THE TRUTH COMES TO LIGHT!!!! You're a police officer....so now I understand. Let me just preface my comments by saying this is NOT directed towards you. Now I understand why in your original post you made that comment about lawyers...lol touche Sometimes people go back and forth so much that they don't realize when they are in agreement. And the: I agree that most cops don't do stuff like this, but like you said there are some. Even if that number is less than 1%, there are some and you admit it. That's all I'm saying. The car I was driving, a convertible mustang, yes I agree people buy it for speed. Have I sped in this car? Yes. Did I buy it for speed? Not really. I bought it b/c of the way it looks. I know NOTHING about horsepower and all that other stuff. Actually, I didn't even buy it, it was a gift from my parents when I graduated from MSU. I think my dad was living vicariously through me, b/c he LOVES that car
We are basically in agreement, I don't know if you realize that I can't address yellow lights, red lights, etc. What I can address is what happened that night. Before I even got pulled over I was driving around 55-60mph in a 70mph zone. Maybe that seems off to you, but I work in a law firm 8 hours then I go to law school at night and I'm also pregnant with a 22 month old at home. I was tired...and not really in a rush. The officer was on EB 94 and came across to the WB side on one of those authorizes vehicle paths. He got in front of me and just kept hitting his brakes. I wasn't sleeping so to speak; I saw him the whole time from when he crossed over through the authorized drivers path. The total amount of time that elapsed during this whole situation was less than two minutes. He came over in front of me on WB 94 right after the southfield freeway and he pulled me over right before Telegraph. This was literally a matter of minutes. The car next to me was freaked out and every time the cop hit his breaks they hit theirs, so I was basically trapped behind this officer unless I got onto the shoulder. At one point I looked down and I was going about 45/50 mph in a 70 zone. Mind you there was nobody in front of the officer. It's really that cut and dry. Maybe he was having a bad day, I've been there before. I cannot honestly say what was going on. What I do know is that there is no way in H$## that I would tail him. It's like you said if the ratio is 50:1 somebody has to be that one. I don't know if you know many law/medical students, but we don't have much money...lol I am fortunate to be married, but a ticket is the last thing I wanted. That and the night I was pulled over I was going to get the new car that I had just purchased with auto insurance in my OWN name for the first time. So, and the I appreciate officers like you who keep the streets and communities safe for my family and I. You deserve WAY more credit (and MONEY) than you get. But like any other profession everybody is not as committed or honest as you are. I have been wrong MANY times in my life and have accepted the consequences and learned my lesson, but this is not just for me to accept wrong when I did none. You being a police officer I believe you are probably a decent judge of character can tell when someone in traffic court or prison for that matter are lying. You and I both have a love for the law, in different ways, and having that I am even more passionate about just and fair treatment. I was pulled over on EB 94 by a state tropper last year, in my stang, and I was speeding. He asked me did I know I was speeding and I said yes, b/c why lie, and he ended up letting me go b/c of my clean driving record. He didn't have to, but he did. I was honest and respectful with him. I'm sure you've done the same thing. So, I can't speak for the people in traffic court or in prison that claim to have done no wrong, but I can speak for myself.
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$175 x 12... quite a nice sum of money extra everyday.
I will not have to plead my case in front of either of you. 
