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If Mr. Desai and his Indian compatriots had never been allowed into the U.S. in the first place, what makes you think that an American wouldn't have ended up founding a similar business? Is providing software staffing to businesses really all that amazingly original or innovative?
Based on a quick reading of the Wikipedia entry for Syntel, it looks like the business specializes in displacing Americans from jobs by offering to have work done in India and (presumably) in America by H-1B and L-1 visa holders. In other words, Syntel's existence might very well be detrimental to the American labor market. Perhaps it's good for Michigan in particular since it's headquartered here but bad for the nation overall.
This post is so xenophobic and Michitucky that's it's laughable. Like I said, back away from your baseball bats, people, and start these companies yourselves then. You think the Desai's of the world are preventing an "American" from starting a similar company - stealing what's rightfully yours? Then start a company if it's so easy and put him out of business. BTW, out of the over 12,000 jobs at Syntel, the overwhelming majority are filled by US citizens - it just looks bad b/c the jobs requiring some analytical/tech skills are filled by foreigners who did their multiplication tables instead of playing Wii and watching Sportscenter all day. People like Desai are making the pie bigger and giving thousands of Americans jobs, yet you concentrate on the small minority of foreigners in his company? This is classic Michitucky short-sightedness and playing the blame game.
You're delusional if you think the American workforce is trained and ready for these 21st century jobs but they're being underbid by inferior, but cheaper, foreign workers. In my experience, companies go out of their way to get US citizens for these jobs. I'm not talking about the highly-publicized tech support jobs that are getting shipped out to India either. You know how difficult and expensive it is to get visas in this post-9/11 era? These are relatively high paying jobs. The vast majority of the foreigners I know who are working here legally got their job because no American filled it, or they were the best qualified, not b/c they agreed to get paid less. And, yes, there is a stereotype that these foreigners will work harder and more honestly than an American, but the jobs are there for the taking by citizens for the visa reasons I mentioned. Nope, we're basically raising entitled, lazy, immoral kids for the most part who are getting their Wii asses handed to them by motivated foreigners coming here for a better life - just like your ancestors except educated and not just country bumpkins fleeing a potato famine.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and believing that your average American is competitive in the world today but the government and companies are trying to squeeze them out. What it comes down to is that companies will not pay some ignoramus $80k a year to have his friend punch him in while he goes fishing. Imagine the audacity of that! A company that expects their employees to work for their money!
Last edited by Cato the Elder; 05-13-2008 at 07:43 AM..
You're delusional if you think the American workforce is trained and ready for these 21st century jobs but they're being underbid by inferior, but cheaper, foreign workers. In my experience, companies go out of their way to get US citizens for these jobs. I'm not talking about the highly-publicized tech support jobs that are getting shipped out to India either. You know how difficult and expensive it is to get visas in this post-9/11 era? These are relatively high paying jobs. The vast majority of the foreigners I know who are working here legally got their job because no American filled it, or they were the best qualified, not b/c they agreed to get paid less. And, yes, there is a stereotype that these foreigners will work harder and more honestly than an American, but the jobs are there for the taking by citizens for the visa reasons I mentioned. Nope, we're basically raising entitled, lazy, immoral kids for the most part who are getting their Wii asses handed to them by motivated foreigners coming here for a better life - just like your ancestors except educated and not just country bumpkins fleeing a potato famine.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and believing that your average American is competitive in the world today but the government and companies are trying to squeeze them out. What it comes down to is that companies will not pay some ignoramus $80k a year to have his friend punch him in while he goes fishing. Imagine the audacity of that! A company that expects their employees to work for their money!
I can only speak for my profession, but you couldn't be more wrong on some of your statements. It seems to me you are rolling white collar jobs (foreigners better qualified) and manufacturing (paying some ignoramus $80k a year to have someone else punch him in) into one thing. I've never heard of a Engineer, Designer, Programmer, or IT guy punching a time clock..
As a nation, we need to end the H-1B and L-1B programs and force businesses to employ Americans. Part of the solution to our nation's economic problems is to establish an American free market that uses an American labor supply instead of providing businesses with a foreign labor subsidy. Let's employ Americans first. If businesses then attempted to engage in foreign outsourcing we could put up tariffs.
Do you know anything about the high tech industry?
Compaines in Seattle and Silicon Valley fall on top of themselves looking for domestic labor. They offer benefits and perks you can't imagine. But if you need someone who with specific skills, like someone who can design Serializer/Deserializer blocks for a programmable logic device, chances are you won't find a native-born American even if you offer $200k a year. India simply graduates a lot more EEs than the US, many at American universities. Americans choose to study other topics, and you don't see many Indians studying poli sci.
H1-Bs need to be expanded, because the reality is much of this work will be done by Indians, whether it's done physically in the U.S., or in Bangalore. Better that they spend their money in America.
What's the incentive to get a degree in Computer science when you can't find a job afterwards? .
Virginia is overflowing with comp sci jobs, many of which require government security clearances, so a lot of them go unfilled because H-1Bs can't do them.
We are a right to work state, with a deep sense of individual responsibility, which might be a culture shock for someone used to the self-entitled socialism of Michigan. But seriously, if you have halfway decent javascript skills and you're a U.S. citizen, you could get off a plane this afternoon and have a job offer by dinner.
Virginia is overflowing with comp sci jobs, many of which require government security clearances, so a lot of them go unfilled because H-1Bs can't do them.
We are a right to work state, with a deep sense of individual responsibility, which might be a culture shock for someone used to the self-entitled socialism of Michigan. But seriously, if you have halfway decent javascript skills and you're a U.S. citizen, you could get off a plane this afternoon and have a job offer by dinner.
You ain't kidding,lol. When my husband separated he got TONS of job offers for positions in VA and DC (he's got a Top Secret clearance and is microsoft & dell certified along with a bunch of other stuff I can never remember, cisco is one too I think) but we certainly did not want to live down there any longer.
He stil gets emails all time with people trying to coax him down there. But he's not budging,haha.
I can only speak for my profession, but you couldn't be more wrong on some of your statements. It seems to me you are rolling white collar jobs (foreigners better qualified) and manufacturing (paying some ignoramus $80k a year to have someone else punch him in) into one thing. I've never heard of a Engineer, Designer, Programmer, or IT guy punching a time clock..
Nope, you missed my entire point. The bulk of the complainers on here are uneducated workers saying there are no jobs. Ergo, why bother going into debt getting trained to have no job waiting for you? You see how erroneous, defeatist and pathetic this is? The worst part is that this mentality gets transferred to their kids, producing another generation of anti-education, entitled workers.
My point is that there are plenty of jobs, just not turning screws. The bottom line is that there are some people in untenable situations despite their best effots, but I find it difficult to believe that the vast majority of people out there totally got screwed by everyone else. Can it be we don't measure up to the foreign workforce where it matters in the 21st century? Where's the personal responsibility that America was famous for? The ability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps? If you can't make something out of yourself in the US, where else will you make a better life for yourself? Russia? France? Please, tell me where else people can go and get ahead so easily. Sorry, still don't feel sorry for the majority of the complainers. The decline of US manufacturing was not an overnight phenomenon. You reap what you sow and most of these complainers sowed it ditching classes in high school.
Last edited by Cato the Elder; 05-13-2008 at 11:14 AM..
Well ,
I do see your point and I'm not really arguing that part of it. I am just saying I am seeing entire industries getting wiped out due to offshoring and corporate greed. And telling the person trying to make it thru these times " if you had an education things could be different" really isn't justified in these cases. I am a Design/Engineer in the auto industry, when I started out college wasn't needed, although I was still taking a courses to get my autobody design degree. Well after a couple of years of working in the biz and going to school I found I was learning a hell of a lot more at work than school and getting paid for it. Needless to say I didn't get the degree. Well with the current trend of combining design and engineering , you see in the ad's that degree's are needed. Although I have yet to find it an issue and I've worked for several suppliers and one foreign OEM in OH.
But back to my point, some of the people in this profession are highly skilled, some with degree's and they are still losing jobs to people overseas that don't have a clue what they are doing but can do it and redo it several times and still be less costly than us (sorry, I'm not willing to live in a cardboard box and eat rice) , so that on paper the company looks like it's "doing it's part" to keep the shareholders happy. When in reality it is actually costing more.
Companies need to focus more on there products and think a little further ahead than what the next quarter stock results are. If they did this they wouldn't have to gut the company from the inside out... It isn't the workers causing the problem. We need accountability for some of these CEO's and upper managment. Hell a lot of times they aren't even employed by the same company anymore by the time bad decisions start hurting the company. One supplier I worked at , the CEO actually got federally indicted , but of course his pockets were filled and the company was ran into the ground putting a lot of people out of work. Offshoring sure didn't help them ......
BTW, out of the over 12,000 jobs at Syntel, the overwhelming majority are filled by US citizens - it just looks bad b/c the jobs requiring some analytical/tech skills are filled by foreigners who did their multiplication tables instead of playing Wii and watching Sportscenter all day.
I'll second that. Knowing the rabble that passes as high school students these days, I'm not surprised that foreigners who APPRECIATE achievement are doing well. I'm not sure what happened along the way but I know that when popular culture spews out "entertainment" in the form of shows celebrating "slackers" and the lowest common denominator, parodying education and mocking moral choices we can only expect the masses that drink in that garbage to act accordingly.
I do not know what happened to this post but it seems as though it has been highjacked as to jobs in the country and visa's. Havent seen any pages since the beginning of the post about the original question -- I would like someone to pay me for the last 25 min. of my life that I will never get back for reading these pages of this post. That is how bad the economy in Mi is getting!!
Hopefully some people on here could help me make a decision. I am moving to the Flint, MI area in July to be an Air Force recruiter there (people so they don't have jobs, well I have jobs for everyone...but that is a different story haha). I am in a predicament on whether to buy a house or what. I'm only 22 and am very financially stable for my age and after living in one apartment (besides Air Force dorm rooms) I must say I don't ever want to live in one again. Seeing that decent two bedroom apartments in Grand Blanc or Swartz Creek with a single car garage are about $750 a month and some charge extra for the garage. It seems to me like buying a house would be a good decision to a point because they are cheaper now than ever and it would be better living conditions for slightly more money--also I would be owning something instead of throwing money into nothing. The major issue at hand is that I will only be in the area for 4 years with a possibility to extend for one extra year there. I know the economy is terrible and from what I hear Michigan economy (with Flint area being a major) is even worse off than the rest of the USA. Yes I know the economy will rebound, but I just wonder if I will be able to sell the house in the 4-5 years and on top of that will I even have equity and make a little something off of it. I would love to get a German Shepherd up there and not have to worry about apartment rip-offs screwing me over with all types of fees and deposits...including the extra monthly fee for having a pet.
For people in this area and anyone that knows anything about the market etc. that could chime in and help me it would be a lot of help.
I've spoke with some Realtors and even a mortgage company and they seem kinda against the idea of buying since I would have to turn the house around in such a short period of time. I guess I could try renting it out if I couldn't sell it, but if people are leaving the area more than they are coming in then there may not be anyone looking to rent either.
Thanks in advance!
Jared
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BTW, out of the over 12,000 jobs at Syntel, the overwhelming majority are filled by US citizens - it just looks bad b/c the jobs requiring some analytical/tech skills are filled by foreigners who did their multiplication tables instead of playing Wii and watching Sportscenter all day. People like Desai are making the pie bigger and giving thousands of Americans jobs, yet you concentrate on the small minority of foreigners in his company? 
!!
