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I see both sides of this. I know people need to get some sort of training or education, but I think people are having trouble finding any kind of working class job that pays a living wage, not just in Michigan, but all over the US. I don't think everyone here is an 80K a year union screw turner. There is a strong working class culture with a long history in Detroit, and I think it's shame that they can no longer afford any kind of life. Not every working class person is an overpaid union screw turner. I knew many people when I was growing up in Warrendale who worked for 20-30 years to get up to 35-40K, they could afford a little bungalow, food for their kids, and they worked hard for it. I don't think wanting that means someone is acting entitled. Unfortunatley those jobs aren't around anymore or they pay $8/hr so you can't feed your kids.
Well, the funny thing is how there are so many people in MI (and on here) who bash education as useless, despite the fact that stats show that someone holding a bachelors degree on average makes 50% more than someone without one - a figure that's been slowly rising since WWII. Sorry, just can't feel sorry for people who didn't even make a go at higher education.
Cost is a poor excuse. You can easily attend CC for two years and transfer to Wayne State, Oakland U, U of M-Dearborn, U of M-Flint...a bunch of places that cost $500-1000 class...all while living at home. If you're poor, you'll get aid. If you're middle class and don't want to take out loans, you can work while going to class. It isn't easy, but for anyone in the US to say that higher education is out of their reach is about priorities, first and foremost, not finances. It's sickening to see all these kids of "struggling families" driving around in late-model cars screwing around. Nope...still don't feel sorry for them when my wife and I are fortunate enough to have good jobs but drive around in an early 90s subcompact and a 2000 Chevy.
Let me interject by pointing out that there is not an infinite supply of good paying jobs that do or do not require a college education. Getting certain education or training does not create demand for that education or training. If everyone were to suddenly get the type of education and training that pays the big bucks…..those careers would no longer pay the big bucks. What allows many disciplines and careers to pay the big bucks is that not a lot of people have the skill relative to the demand for it.
One has to keep in mind that the price of something, in the market, is determined by the laws of supply and demand. Generally, the rule is that oversupply reduces prices and undersupply increases price, relative to demand. Thus, the price for skills is also influenced by the supply of and demand for that skill in the market. The oversupply of general labor in the economy, relative to demand, means that some people will not find work, as well as, those working as general or unskilled labor will see a steady erosion of the pay overtime. On the other hand, those with skill sets in areas that cannot find enough workers can demand higher wages and are seeing wage increases.
Many people erroneously think that it is as simple as getting training and education and working hard. That is a fallacy. Some of the hardest working people are of the working class and there are many educated people out of work or underemployed. The truth is that the economy some group of people benefit from the problems of other groups of people. The fact that so many Americans do not have a certain level of education and/or skills benefits those who do have it. How? The reason is that if more people had the skills, the law of supply and demand would reduce the price (salary wage) of that skill in the market. The fact is if the educational system was changed so that the vast majority of people were getting college degrees, the people hurt the most by that are the current class that benefit from the relative shortage of people with certain education and skills. So it would be in the economic interest of the “elites” to promote a kind of social policy that makes in hard for others to get what they have…..not that such is what is happening, however.
The economies demand dictates supply. Supply does not dictate demand. The current structure of our economy demands that there be a significant percent of unskilled and marginally skilled workers to do certain jobs in demand in the economy. Only approximately 28% of our economy is demanding college education. Thus, the economy has no use for a labor pool that is 50% college educated or 40%. The future under globalization is going to be even more draining for America because the international pool of skill sets is outstripping international demand. As long as there are more people with skills in the world than there is demand for the skills, it will eventually bid down the going rate of pay for that skill....in regards to jobs that can be outsourced.
Well, the funny thing is how there are so many people in MI (and on here) who bash education as useless, despite the fact that stats show that someone holding a bachelors degree on average makes 50% more than someone without one - a figure that's been slowly rising since WWII. Sorry, just can't feel sorry for people who didn't even make a go at higher education.
Cost is a poor excuse. You can easily attend CC for two years and transfer to Wayne State, Oakland U, U of M-Dearborn, U of M-Flint...a bunch of places that cost $500-1000 class...all while living at home. If you're poor, you'll get aid. If you're middle class and don't want to take out loans, you can work while going to class. It isn't easy, but for anyone in the US to say that higher education is out of their reach is about priorities, first and foremost, not finances. It's sickening to see all these kids of "struggling families" driving around in late-model cars screwing around. Nope...still don't feel sorry for them when my wife and I are fortunate enough to have good jobs but drive around in an early 90s subcompact and a 2000 Chevy.
I think it's crazy to bash education. I certainly would want my kids in college. I earned an M.S. as a fully independent adult. I had to get loans and work to pay for it, but now I make good money doing something I love, and it's a career that won't disappear.
I have been laid off from the auto industry. I have some savings put away. And am a believer in higher education.
But many here are not living in reality.
I am 43 YO and what exactly am I supposed to go to school for? What can I go to collage for that will help me get a job? In what area? I do not enjoy the medical profession, so what kind of work that is not being outsourced can I study for to find a job at 45-47 years of age?
You who say the people need to just get more training, What areas are not being outsourced that I can have employment in the last half of my working life? I am very serious about this question. I do not have much hope in the answer, People are always fast to point a finger at a vague answer but never anything really substantive.
I have been laid off from the auto industry. I have some savings put away. And am a believer in higher education.
But many here are not living in reality.
I am 43 YO and what exactly am I supposed to go to school for? What can I go to collage for that will help me get a job? In what area? I do not enjoy the medical profession, so what kind of work that is not being outsourced can I study for to find a job at 45-47 years of age?
You who say the people need to just get more training, What areas are not being outsourced that I can have employment in the last half of my working life? I am very serious about this question. I do not have much hope in the answer, People are always fast to point a finger at a vague answer but never anything really substantive.
Exactly. I don't think anyone bashes an education and almost anyone would tell a kid living at home whose parents want to put him through college to go for it. And most people would tell someone who can live with his parents and work his way through college, that would be a very good option to consider.
It's a different matter for a 35-45 year old with a mortgage and family to feed. Yet that's the simplistic answer so often given to someone in financial crisis--- without a job for the first time in his life -- "go to college and get yourself a degree" yet who pays the mortage, the health insurance for the family, the food bills in addition to the tuition and books?
The bad thing is -- college itself has become a glamorized trade school. It's not a matter of getting a four year degree and then being able to go out and find a job. If you get a degree in biology -- then what? Without an education major, teaching isn't feasible, maybe research but they'll then tell you that you need a phd for that. If you major in education then forget about being a nurse and vice versa.
My advice is get a job so you don't go financially under -- that's number one and work on a degree in your spare time. Or -- there's a new trend in outsourcing. American workers. Americans are more mechanically inclined than many people -- and some of these companies selling products globally are hiring Americans to learn to service equipment and sending them to other countries to fix specialized equipment. Large refrigeration uinits for example -- it's easier to train an American to repair them, fly them to whereever and in that kind of thing experience counts.
I have been laid off from the auto industry. I have some savings put away. And am a believer in higher education.
But many here are not living in reality.
I am 43 YO and what exactly am I supposed to go to school for? What can I go to collage for that will help me get a job? In what area? I do not enjoy the medical profession, so what kind of work that is not being outsourced can I study for to find a job at 45-47 years of age?
You who say the people need to just get more training, What areas are not being outsourced that I can have employment in the last half of my working life? I am very serious about this question. I do not have much hope in the answer, People are always fast to point a finger at a vague answer but never anything really substantive.
Oh, I never said anything about COLLEGE. My husband does not, in fact, have a four year degree (I do, but I'm a stay at home mom). We are a young couple under 35 (geesh I try not to be too specific about us, but it's hard when I'm trying to relay my point,lol).
My husband and I met when we were freshman in college but due to some family issues and not being able to afford it, he dropped out and joined the military @ 19. He continued going to school thru their programs....BUT he is not employed in the field he actually thought he would.
About four years ago he decided IT was a better way to make a living and he only took a few certification courses (gah! He'd kill me if he heard me say "only", but you know what I mean). He holds certifications in a few different things (what exactly I'm not sure, most computer things are greek to me). But it was litereally around 8 weeks here, 12 weeks here with minimal cost.
He nows works for a very old, large company with holdings not only in Michigan but most of the midwest and makes enough for us to be comfortable, keep adding to our savings with extra left for some fun, and for me to stay home with our child. As I said before, I guess anything is possible but the company he works for won't be going under any time soon (lol) and his type of work and position is in demand and he does it well.
So, no I don't think it would be super easy for a middle aged person like yourself to go off to COLLEGE. But, I do think there are avenues to different positions thru education if you really want it.
I have been laid off from the auto industry. I have some savings put away. And am a believer in higher education.
But many here are not living in reality.
I am 43 YO and what exactly am I supposed to go to school for? What can I go to collage for that will help me get a job? In what area? I do not enjoy the medical profession, so what kind of work that is not being outsourced can I study for to find a job at 45-47 years of age?
You who say the people need to just get more training, What areas are not being outsourced that I can have employment in the last half of my working life? I am very serious about this question. I do not have much hope in the answer, People are always fast to point a finger at a vague answer but never anything really substantive.
What can you study?
Architecture,
Business
Computer science
Development (Urban or real estate)
Engineering (Environmental engineering is supposed to be decent right now).
Fencing
Geology
Health and Nutrition
IT
Justice (Criminal - prison guard or warden, police officer, etc).
Law
Math
Nuclear Physics
Opthamology
Pharmacy
Ok not many people will make a living in fencing, but you get the picture. College can open many many doors for you. Your age is irrelevant other than it may make attending full time a bit difficult. When I attended Wayne State 20 some years ago, there were a considerable number of people in my classes who were over 40. Some were over 60. It is never too late to learn and improve your opportunities. You have to be prepared to start at the bottom, but if you are a hard worker and intelligent you will move up quickly and in a few years make a decent living in any of these fields.
Keep on waiting. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy being so rude, too.
Okay, you know what? What do you want me to do?
I'd prefer you not be shocked when someone gives you a little taste of what you dished out.
I don't understand why anyone would expect Michiganders to appreciate outsiders taking jobs like they're doing some sort of favor for someone. On one post, someone had the nerve to say that because she was involved in a community garden and not shopping on the internet, she was doing some sort of tremendous favor for the community while her family bled a paycheck from the state.
I don't really care what the out-of-staters think, but it seems odd to me that coming here taking a job is perceived as a favor... Now, if you came here and started a business, that's a benefit... but I don't see the benefit in taking a job.
I'd prefer you not be shocked when someone gives you a little taste of what you dished out.
I don't understand why anyone would expect Michiganders to appreciate outsiders taking jobs like they're doing some sort of favor for someone. On one post, someone had the nerve to say that because she was involved in a community garden and not shopping on the internet, she was doing some sort of tremendous favor for the community while her family bled a paycheck from the state.
I don't really care what the out-of-staters think, but it seems odd to me that coming here taking a job is perceived as a favor... Now, if you came here and started a business, that's a benefit... but I don't see the benefit in taking a job.
Oh well...
Blah, blah, blah.
I have never said that our moving here was doing anyone a favor. I simply said that we moved here FOR a job. I don't recall asking for any red carpet to be rolled out.
And this quote is a classic: "I don't really care what the out-of-staters think". As much as people gripe about how horribly the state is doing, don't you think it might be wise to welcome out-of-staters to move here? Buy houses here, rent houses here? But noooo...unless you're moving here to start a business, then forget you! Go back. Lovely mentality.
Like you said, "oh well..."
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Educati yon?
