[darstar]

Originally Posted by ram2

How did Reagan cause job loss in Pittsburgh? US steel companies were in decline long before Reagan took office. I remember the Alaskan pipeline was built using Japanese steel because the US steel companies did not/would not make the steel needed for the pipeline. This all happened before 1981.

Reagan was not the one who did much good for our country. A large part of offshore problems started with Reagan., including our national debt. He was mostly for big business and Government in bed together. Not sure why the right wingers speak so highly of him, knowing all the bad,unregulated business he supported .

[ram2]

Originally Posted by darstar

Reagan was not the one who did much good for our country. A large part of offshore problems started with Reagan., including our national debt. He was mostly for big business and Government in bed together. Not sure why the right wingers speak so highly of him, knowing all the bad,unregulated business he supported .

Better go back and read your history books. The US budget deficit started in the 60's under LBJ when he began stealing money from Social Security (and other sources) to pay for the Vietnam War. This deficit spending escalated in the 70s to pay for all the new welfare programs, including those created under Carter. The 1980 election centered on the US deficit and Reagan was not even in office. Teddy Kennedy split the Democratic Party at the 1980 convention because even he was upset at Carter's performance.

[ram2]

Job offshoring started in earnest in the 1960s when the US electronics industry started sending everything to Japan.

[Greengables]

Originally Posted by darstar

So many Conservatives rant about Socialism, and how the Dems. want more of it , yet , when asked about there Social Security, well, hell no, don,t touch it ! In light of statements like this, and the race hatred, being against women and issues that have , or we thought settled years ago, well yes, I can say with truth Democrats are Progressive. They are not the party of NO. at any cost just to protect their chances in the coming elections ? . very strange ideals, but what can you expect when the right considers Rush Limbaugh the spokes person of the party ?

I find this quite funny....thanks for the chuckle. Race hatred? Against women? Typical so called comeback to conservatives. Those race hating, against women conservatives are some of the most charitable, compassionate people you will ever meet!

[Tiger Beer]

When I read this thread, or any political thread on Michigan - same question always comes back to me - MICHIGAN IS A BLUE STATE? HOW?

I don't think I've ever heard of a 'Michigan liberal', although I assume they might exist in Ann Arbor.

But, on the thread, I'm mostly reading conservatives on the offensive...which seems to be the typical MI theme that I usually see, online or offline in regards to Michigan.

But, I get that the factories, the loss of jobs, the potential protection of jobs, etc. create voters who vote Democrat despite not having anything in common with the types of people who vote Democratic in, say, Oregon, or somewhere that also votes Democratic, and seem to speak in more 'liberal utopia' type of talk.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by ram2

Better go back and read your history books. The US budget deficit started in the 60's under LBJ when he began stealing money from Social Security (and other sources) to pay for the Vietnam War. This deficit spending escalated in the 70s to pay for all the new welfare programs, including those created under Carter. The 1980 election centered on the US deficit and Reagan was not even in office. Teddy Kennedy split the Democratic Party at the 1980 convention because even he was upset at Carter's performance.

Ok, it seems once a conservative always a Reagan fan.regardless of the truth. You have your talking points now,for a President you defend, Ok fine, but if you are telling. me Reagan did not contribute to the Government spending,maybe it's you that need to go back and check the history books .

[darstar]

Originally Posted by ram2

Job offshoring started in earnest in the 1960s when the US electronics industry started sending everything to Japan.

Off shoring stayed just under the radar for a long time. As time went along there became a time when the cost advantage did not always work. When business gained ground for doing this was the tax system that favored the practice. I recall, all sorts of excuses, from both sides of the isle.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

When I read this thread, or any political thread on Michigan - same question always comes back to me - MICHIGAN IS A BLUE STATE? HOW?

I don't think I've ever heard of a 'Michigan liberal', although I assume they might exist in Ann Arbor.

But, on the thread, I'm mostly reading conservatives on the offensive...which seems to be the typical MI theme that I usually see, online or offline in regards to Michigan.

But, I get that the factories, the loss of jobs, the potential protection of jobs, etc. create voters who vote Democrat despite not having anything in common with the types of people who vote Democratic in, say, Oregon, or somewhere that also votes Democratic, and seem to speak in more 'liberal utopia' type of talk.

It sounds like you do not live in Michigan. There has always been Dems. In the state, and not just in Ann Arbor. That's why it's a blue state. Under your world of politics, everyone is a conservative, they just vote foe a liberal if they think their job is at stake. That really is not true, and I bet you know it too.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by darstar

It sounds like you do not live in Michigan. There has always been Dems. In the state, and not just in Ann Arbor. That's why it's a blue state. Under your world of politics, everyone is a conservative, they just vote foe a liberal if they think their job is at stake. That really is not true, and I bet you know it too.

I grew up in Michigan and went to college in Michigan.

Regarding 'liberals', it sounds like we have different definitions of 'liberal'.

My definition of 'Liberals' are people who believe in gay rights, strongly support public transportation initiatives, pro-education, want healthcare for all citizens, like to watch NPR, appear off-put by guns, hesitant about war, etc.

Generally speaking, people who vote 'blue' in places like Michigan, are usually what we call 'Blue Dog Democrats'. They just simply do not have liberal agendas or interests whatsoever, by any stretch.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I grew up in Michigan and went to college in Michigan.

Regarding 'liberals', it sounds like we have different definitions of 'liberal'.

My definition of 'Liberals' are people who believe in gay rights, strongly support public transportation initiatives, pro-education, want healthcare for all citizens, like to watch NPR, appear off-put by guns, hesitant about war, etc.

Generally speaking, people who vote 'blue' in places like Michigan, are usually what we call 'Blue Dog Democrats'. They just simply do not have liberal agendas or interests whatsoever, by any stretch.

Yes, you have us pegged about right. One always knows a fellow Liberal whereever they meet. It's like seeing an old friend, even if you have not met before, refreshing ! One of the reasons I moved out of the south was because there were few friends that shared the same values as is common up here in Marquette County, Michigan's largest, and the most progressive county in the northern tier.