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What might be right according to the Constitution, has meant little these last 200 plus years. A poll tax is hardly new, women were conserved unfit to vote, not that long ago. Under the cover of states rights has come all kinds of trickery when voting on national Elections. One only has to look at our wonderful state of Florida, and the crime that was committed against all honest voters everywhere.Look what we got out of this , a second term of GWB, and the worst economy since Hoover. Now we have our rights trampled every day in the name of homeland Security.
O' and by the way, our founding fathers never knew of MasterCard.! Thank the interstate laws and rulings ( which have been watered down for some fairness that many right states are just waiting to trample on. Then we have voting machine fraud, another thing the good ol boys in The 1700 hundreds never heard of. I could go on and on, but most of what I would say you already know quite well.
If I recall correctly, the controversy over the Florida electoral votes was during the 2000 election, which would have segwayed us into Bush's first term, not his second. Americans who foolishly voted Bush into his second term only have themselves to blame for the legacy he left behind.
That said, the controversy that took place in Florida has nothing to do with the voters themselves, but it had everything to do with the folks handling the votes. I'm not sure how Voter ID Requirements would have prevented someting like that.
As for MasterCards, again, owning a credit card is not a right. If you want to have a photo ID to apply for and use credit cards, that's your business. If you want to present your photo ID to the merchant when they ask, that's your business.
That said, I know for a fact VISA and MAsterCard, while they don't necessarily punish a merchant that asks for an ID, requires that a business accepts your card even if you refuse to show your ID after they ask for it (there are exceptions to this depending on the state). However, government can't force privately-owned businesses to NOT ask for a person's ID or punish them for not accepting their purchase because the customer refuses to show it. It's up to them if they want to deny a customer's purchase because they refuse to show their ID and it's up to VISA and MAsterCard to enforce their policy agreement with the merchant (because it's the banks' and merchants' money). And ultimately, in our economy, the customer does have a choice in shopping at that merchant's establishment and using a credit card provided by VISA or MasterCard to complete their purchase.
On the other hand, denying someone the right to vote a candidate into PUBLIC office because they don't have a photo ID is unconstitutional and completely different from the above situation.
Yes., you are correct to GWB...I just found those dark years a blur., and am trying to block them out of my memory lol. Just about everything we do comes under the Interstate commerce clause.if a law or rule is passed in one state, it effects other states. There has to be one rule for all or it becomes unfair in equal. The universal code enters here as well. It all started in the late 1800s with the Carmack amendment.
Your comeback is right on target, the truth. Why is it that the Conservatives ( I have many friends who are very intel people) are so afraid of the far right, the old Moral majority folks, many have come out of their lair are tea party/ NRA fanatics.I like you would like to see honest Journalism and not the hired fake media like Fox. I know the average GOP supporter does not believe or want a lot of the crap that comes down from these wing nuts, yet,they keep supporting them. It was not that way in the past, I guess most Conservatives think the far right is necessary to win on election day. The other observation I see is many Conservatives , when left alone and we can have a sane conversation, are really Libertarians.Yet they dumped on Ron Paul in the most shameful way. Its getting hard to tell who is really leading , I am afraid if things continue they will get what they really don't want, a country that's pure Fascism.
OK, taking your advice I will try this approach at out local voting place this November. I am curious how and what the reactions will be, as my name, address, and political persuasion is on a printout as a registered Democrat. Thats the first thing they ask for while standing in a line that extends out the door and down the road, and we are a very small country Township.
The outcome? You will be handed a piece of paper to sign stating you didn't have a photo ID when you showed up to vote. What is so flipping hard to understand? You are trying to make this a big partisan argument when it isn't. I am also in a small rural area, I have lived in rural areas my whole life almost and know how they operate. They still have to follow the LAW.
The outcome? You will be handed a piece of paper to sign stating you didn't have a photo ID when you showed up to vote. What is so flipping hard to understand? You are trying to make this a big partisan argument when it isn't. I am also in a small rural area, I have lived in rural areas my whole life almost and know how they operate. They still have to follow the LAW.
Of coarse we do ( there have been exceptions in the not too distant past) I think the point was in some districts the people have been demoralized.. You know that. I would like to think the awareness will bring out more people to vote. I am sure you are aware of that low percentage , all over the country.
Never mind the lost ballots , the false statements made to discourage getting out the vote, and the rigged voting machines. I do not think the states can be trusted in many National Elections. we need laws and rules that are all the same, not 50 of them.
It really depends on where you live and where you work.
Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and Washtenaw counties tend to vote democratic and everywhere else (with the exception of Genesee county and the UP) tend to vote republican. There's enough voters in southeast Michigan to give us two democratic senators, and we usually vote democratic for president. On the other hand, when it comes to state and local politics, you see a lot more republicans.
Ann Arbor is in-your-face progressive and people in that city are only allowed to think a certain way. Progressives elsewhere tend to be more open and tolerant to other points of view, so you might interpret that as being "conservative."
"Ann Arbor is in-your-face progressive and people in that city are only allowed to think a certain way."
Just who is not "allowing" people to think in other ways? I worked in Ann Arbor for years. There are many conservatives there. Snyder lived and worked there. I never encountered the "in your face" stuff you are talking about. Enough with the generalizations and stereotypes. Ann Arbor is only "Liberal" because it's a college town. It hardly represents the people who live there year round.
I am a liberal and I live in Ann Arbor. I moved here from New York City. This argument simply boils down to a way of life question. I myself WANT to live in country with STRICT gun controls, big government, socialist services, and rights for gays and other folks. That's what I want. That is my RIGHT as an American citizen. I'm not religious and I don't want to be. I don't see how those good old puritanical mores, norms, and customs did much for this country. Conservatism (Free Market Capitalism) is all about I want what I earn for me and f*ck you and your family. It's about ME ME ME. How can anyone honestly make a statement like, "I don't want everyone to have insurance." This is like saying "If they can't afford medicine, let them die." It's stupid. Many countries have socialized medicine and it works pretty well. You may not get the Super Duper Gold Plated Pat on the A$$ treatment you get here in the US, but I personally suspect any physician that gets into medicine to make lots of money. I want the person operating on my heart to want to help people for the sake of helping people. Are liberals Utopian idealists? Damn right we are. Look very carefully because America is going to end up that way. No amount of Fox spin is going to get Americans to keep up with the Conservatives. As the economy gets worse and worse, and people become poorer and poorer, more socialist agendas will be realized. The beauty of this country is that it is not static. If the majority of voters in America decide the want Socialism, then AMERICA is SUPPOSED to be so because that is the way voting works. That part kills me with the Conservatives. Always spouting "America is a conservative, Christian nation." It only is if that's what the voters say. You are not entitled to keep it that way because it started that way. It will become what it does, no matter how much people whine about the debt or anything else. I'll just add this in so I don't get any accusations: I'm married and have children. I have a good job and love this country. I'm not gay. So find something else to accuse me of in your response.
I am a liberal and I live in Ann Arbor. I moved here from New York City. This argument simply boils down to a way of life question. I myself WANT to live in country with STRICT gun controls, big government, socialist services, and rights for gays and other folks. That's what I want. That is my RIGHT as an American citizen. I'm not religious and I don't want to be. I don't see how those good old puritanical mores, norms, and customs did much for this country. Conservatism (Free Market Capitalism) is all about I want what I earn for me and f*ck you and your family. It's about ME ME ME. How can anyone honestly make a statement like, "I don't want everyone to have insurance." This is like saying "If they can't afford medicine, let them die." It's stupid. Many countries have socialized medicine and it works pretty well. You may not get the Super Duper Gold Plated Pat on the A$$ treatment you get here in the US, but I personally suspect any physician that gets into medicine to make lots of money. I want the person operating on my heart to want to help people for the sake of helping people. Are liberals Utopian idealists? Damn right we are. Look very carefully because America is going to end up that way. No amount of Fox spin is going to get Americans to keep up with the Conservatives. As the economy gets worse and worse, and people become poorer and poorer, more socialist agendas will be realized. The beauty of this country is that it is not static. If the majority of voters in America decide the want Socialism, then AMERICA is SUPPOSED to be so because that is the way voting works. That part kills me with the Conservatives. Always spouting "America is a conservative, Christian nation." It only is if that's what the voters say. You are not entitled to keep it that way because it started that way. It will become what it does, no matter how much people whine about the debt or anything else. I'll just add this in so I don't get any accusations: I'm married and have children. I have a good job and love this country. I'm not gay. So find something else to accuse me of in your response.
No.
Conservatism is not selfish. Humans are selfish.
And free market capitalism is the best system that the world has ever had to harness that selfishness in a way that creates the absolute most opportunity for the highest number of people to provide for themselves in a way that is beneficial to the society as a whole.
Any other system is doomed to failure. Because humans are selfish. And anything that allows people to get what they want/need without earning it themselves is doomed.
The key is understanding human nature. I don't expect everyone to understand/agree with this, but many (not all) conservatives actually WANT what is best for everyone. They just have a different opinion on how to do that. And it starts with a basic understanding of human nature, what makes people tick, how people are truly fulfilled vs. having things provided for them. Viewing work, business, and self sustainability as a noble thing that is necessary for humans to feel fulfilled.
Unfortunately, some people will never, ever comprehend this.
Last edited by michigan83; 04-30-2012 at 04:49 AM..
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Liberalism and Opinions
