Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Gill: for sale, daycares, schools)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We all have bias. It's human nature.. I don't believe a funeral director is any evidence of people dying from the vaccine. I don't even know what this qanon nonsense is about. There are however some doctors who at the very least think we should exercise caution by mass vaccinating during a pandemic. Some theories are that it will create variants. This is only one doctor who thinks we should not vaccinate during a pandemic... https://michaelsavage.com/vaccine-su...s-coming-true/
I post in the politics and controversies forum but I sometimes get bored there too many people agree with me. The massechusetts forum is interesting because the thoughts are so opposing. The echo chamber here fascinates me and I want to give massechusetts a different perspective. We live so close but think like we are from different planets. This might surprise you but I watch CNN so I know how my enemy is thinking. I want to know what right is going to be taken away or outrageous mandate is next and CNN is very reliable in that respect.
Say if I told you that everything the anti-vaxers say about covid and the vaccines today was the same as was said by anti-vaxxers about the smallpox and the vaccines 136 years ago. Would you be surprised?
Would it make you doubt the current anti-vaxers have really found out the truth about covid vaccines if I proved they were just reusing the same old arguments?
I wasn't necessarily saying you specifically are implying that others are not as smart but the board is littered with snarky comments toward anyone with an opposing view or toward anyone who has chosen not to get the available vaccines. But I will add that beginning your post with a lectorial on how the scientific method works isn't too far off. As I implied, we can have dozens of separate conversations about individual studies and what they imply under specific conditions. It's quite another to take some studies on certain vaccines and say these individual studies are "scientific evidence" proving that vaccine mandates are justified. I don't see that evidence. I do see a lot of assertions here that are allegedly based in science that are just opinion based on what someone believes a collection of studies represents to them (hence comments on "trusting the experts" and the like) which are NOT scientific or logic based arguments. Like I said, these issues involve more than science, including ethics, race, history and other philosophical paradigms which cannot be simply dismissed. It's not simply about science vs non-science, conservatives vs leftists, or educated vs uneducated (some of the most vaccine hesitant for example have PhD's).
I only lead with a lecture on how the scientific method works because I'm being charitable about your complete unwillingness to engage with it. I understand you have doubts, but I have been posting peer-reviewed studies for going on a year now. Simple skepticism isn't enough anymore. We've reached the stage of the pandemic where there are plenty of facts. What specific evidence do you have to support the idea that vaccines are unsafe? Or do you doubt the established evidence? What are your reasons for doubting the evidence?
The real question is, "is there evidence that would convince you to change your mind?". What does that evidence look like? Are there sources that we both trust enough to inform any discussions we have? If the answer is a general "no", there isn't anything that would change your mind, that all the institutions that safeguard scientific integrity are untrustworthy, I would disagree but accept that our discussion will be permanently at an impasse.
For the converse question, "what evidence would convince me to change my mind?", I've given you the answer: peer-reviewed, published research. There already exists a lot of research confirming my ideas on the vaccine, so there would need to be considerable research on the other side to refute it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie
My prime objections to the handful of people who dominate this thread daily is in their choice to turn not only act as if this is all black and white and to snarkily insult anyone with different views. There is certainly no mandate to have respect for opposing views on this board. But hey if you want to come here and act is as if you are on a mission from "science" as if you are a prophet on a mission from God, don't be surprised when you get called out. We don't have all the answers and we're only a very short duration into this, in the grand scheme of things.
My main issue with this thread is the poster who actively spreads (perhaps unwittingly) lies about COVID.
Simply coming to a different conclusion based upon undisputed facts is fine. Are your conclusions firmly rooted in principle or are they partly based on facts? If there were a disease that was 100% fatal but transmission could be prevented by a 100% safe vaccine only if 100% of the people got the vaccine, would you be OK with a forced vaccine mandate?
Simply coming to a different conclusion based upon undisputed facts is fine. Are your conclusions firmly rooted in principle or are they partly based on facts? If there were a disease that was 100% fatal but transmission could be prevented by a 100% safe vaccine only if 100% of the people got the vaccine, would you be OK with a forced vaccine mandate?
I know you're exaggerating the 100% fatality rate to make a point. But isn't the above the very logic we use to institute and maintain vaccine mandates on MMR, polio, etc.? I read recently that Maine was talking about doing away with even the religious exemption because measles vaccination rates in their schools had fallen to 94%, below the 95% herd immunity threshold.
That's one thing I don't and may never understand--why we have accepted such a high vax% threshold for all those other infectious diseases, but are kicking & screaming about Covid...which has demonstrably caused so much economic disruption and death. As I've stated before, it makes me very afraid for the next pandemic that comes along, which may have a higher mortality rate.
Two videos are making the rounds today. They're news clips from the 1980s about the implementation of seatbelt requirements. It's pretty funny how comparable the reactions in the 80s are to today's reactions to the vaccine and mask mandates. Literally some of the same exact things are being said: "Well, we don't have freedoms anymore," "they're uncomfortable," "I refuse to wear one," "I'll boycott the town if it requires one," etc.
Way back when I was in driver's ed they showed us this creepy late 70s early 80s driver's ed video. It showed a guy that was driving a motorcycle without a helmet I got into an accident and is now mentally disabled. Helmet laws are the motorcycles with seatbelt laws are two cars. I grew up in mass and I live in Connecticut now and there's no helmet law in Connecticut. Supposedly in Louisiana there's a requirement that if you don't want to wear a helmet that's fine but you need to have at least a $10,000 life insurance policy so that way when you go Splat the town doesn't have to foot the bill to scrape you off.
I think it's going to be much harder to be against the vaccine by the time we headed next year. We have has four covid Dallas a first step now we have vaccines which are very easy to get and then we're going to make a pill form which is going to be technically even safer than injection. When you reduce something to a pill the opposition tends to end. Anything in terms of a medical sense can be made into a form of liquid and be injected. I take a daily multivitamin. Technically speaking there are still people that might take shots of vitamins rather than a pill and there's nothing wrong with that.
With respect the kids if they tried saying that kids aren't getting covid and now with more mutations they are getting covid. I know parents of children that have covid. If kids have to stay home due to lice what makes us think that they can go to school with covid?
The hypocrisy of anti-vaxxers is just so immense. If they try to make the argument that the vaccine isn't safe it explain to me why everybody that's making it is very much okay. The funny thing is about a year before covid there was the measles outbreak in parts of New York City. There were some rumors of some cases in the southern Berkshire County but nothing was actually confirmed. The same arguments about putting in Poison into kids or were just repeated. How can somebody logically say there are pro-life but yet against the vaccine? Even Trump says he's for the vaccine so I think this sort of back and forth about supporters and deniers is getting a little bit old.
Like a previous poster said is that what exactly would it take to get you to change your mind at this point about the vaccine? Are you waiting for a pill? Are you waiting for another vaccine? Are you questioning the methodology of something being determined to Safe? Ask yourself while drug stores sell dozens if not hundreds of products that are herbal and sold as supplements that have never been tested by FDA.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,981,862 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by htfdcolt
I know you're exaggerating the 100% fatality rate to make a point. But isn't the above the very logic we use to institute and maintain vaccine mandates on MMR, polio, etc.? I read recently that Maine was talking about doing away with even the religious exemption because measles vaccination rates in their schools had fallen to 94%, below the 95% herd immunity threshold.
That's one thing I don't and may never understand--why we have accepted such a high vax% threshold for all those other infectious diseases, but are kicking & screaming about Covid...which has demonstrably caused so much economic disruption and death. As I've stated before, it makes me very afraid for the next pandemic that comes along, which may have a higher mortality rate.
Can you imagine the additional suffering that would have happened if people didn't take polio, measles, small pox vaccines because they personally deemed the studies weren't long term enough?
I know you're exaggerating the 100% fatality rate to make a point. But isn't the above the very logic we use to institute and maintain vaccine mandates on MMR, polio, etc.? I read recently that Maine was talking about doing away with even the religious exemption because measles vaccination rates in their schools had fallen to 94%, below the 95% herd immunity threshold.
That's one thing I don't and may never understand--why we have accepted such a high vax% threshold for all those other infectious diseases, but are kicking & screaming about Covid...which has demonstrably caused so much economic disruption and death. As I've stated before, it makes me very afraid for the next pandemic that comes along, which may have a higher mortality rate.
Vaccine opposition is as old as vaccines. Lots of people were against MMR vaccines even in 2018.
There are probably more people resistant to COVID vaccination because COVID is new. Many of the childhood vaccines were just there and (most) people didn't think to be opposed. It's simply a matter of attention--there are only so many hours in a day you can devote to being outraged about stuff.
Way back when I was in driver's ed they showed us this creepy late 70s early 80s driver's ed video. It showed a guy that was driving a motorcycle without a helmet I got into an accident and is now mentally disabled. Helmet laws are the motorcycles with seatbelt laws are two cars. I grew up in mass and I live in Connecticut now and there's no helmet law in Connecticut. Supposedly in Louisiana there's a requirement that if you don't want to wear a helmet that's fine but you need to have at least a $10,000 life insurance policy so that way when you go Splat the town doesn't have to foot the bill to scrape you off.
I think it's going to be much harder to be against the vaccine by the time we headed next year. We have has four covid Dallas a first step now we have vaccines which are very easy to get and then we're going to make a pill form which is going to be technically even safer than injection. When you reduce something to a pill the opposition tends to end. Anything in terms of a medical sense can be made into a form of liquid and be injected. I take a daily multivitamin. Technically speaking there are still people that might take shots of vitamins rather than a pill and there's nothing wrong with that.
With respect the kids if they tried saying that kids aren't getting covid and now with more mutations they are getting covid. I know parents of children that have covid. If kids have to stay home due to lice what makes us think that they can go to school with covid?
The hypocrisy of anti-vaxxers is just so immense. If they try to make the argument that the vaccine isn't safe it explain to me why everybody that's making it is very much okay. The funny thing is about a year before covid there was the measles outbreak in parts of New York City. There were some rumors of some cases in the southern Berkshire County but nothing was actually confirmed. The same arguments about putting in Poison into kids or were just repeated. How can somebody logically say there are pro-life but yet against the vaccine? Even Trump says he's for the vaccine so I think this sort of back and forth about supporters and deniers is getting a little bit old.
Like a previous poster said is that what exactly would it take to get you to change your mind at this point about the vaccine? Are you waiting for a pill? Are you waiting for another vaccine? Are you questioning the methodology of something being determined to Safe? Ask yourself while drug stores sell dozens if not hundreds of products that are herbal and sold as supplements that have never been tested by FDA.
I mean, the particulars vary, but in broad strokes, the purveyors of misinformation simply turn reality on its head to say:
- The vaccines are unsafe and they don't work
- Masks are unsafe and they don't work
- Social distancing doesn't work
- Covid-19 is safe
...and they simply reject allllll the information that contradicts these delusions, calling it lies and explaining that there is a giant conspiracy that's creating an illusion, and if you believe different than the above, then you are naive and a sheep. Whatever is actually happening is totally irrelevant - they'll just deny it and go to this playbook. For the last year, it's just been rinse and repeat, no matter what studies come out or how the pandemic changes, this is the playbook.
Say if I told you that everything the anti-vaxers say about covid and the vaccines today was the same as was said by anti-vaxxers about the smallpox and the vaccines 136 years ago. Would you be surprised?
Would it make you doubt the current anti-vaxers have really found out the truth about covid vaccines if I proved they were just reusing the same old arguments?
These vaccines do not work in the same way as the old vaccines. Some don't call them vaccines but gene therapy. If we would be injecting a week virus that would be different. Some want to know every single ingredient in these vaccines. Some are worried about graphine oxide in them. A ex Pfizer executive said that they have that chemical in it. I can link the video if you like.
These vaccines do not work in the same way as the old vaccines. Some don't call them vaccines but gene therapy. If we would be injecting a week virus that would be different. Some want to know every single ingredient in these vaccines. Some are worried about graphine oxide in them. A ex Pfizer executive said that they have that chemical in it. I can link the video if you like.
I think someone is having a laugh. If you were going to pick something that isn't actually in the vaccine to scare people, you'd think to pick something dangerous. This stuff is as innocuous as it comes.
SECTION 16: OTHER INFORMATION
HMIS Rating
Health hazard: 0
Chronic Health Hazard:
Flammability: 0
Physical Hazard: 0
NFPA Rating
Health hazard: 0
Fire Hazard: 0
Reactivity Hazard: 0
These vaccines do not work in the same way as the old vaccines. Some don't call them vaccines but gene therapy. If we would be injecting a week virus that would be different. Some want to know every single ingredient in these vaccines. Some are worried about graphine oxide in them. A ex Pfizer executive said that they have that chemical in it. I can link the video if you like.
Yeah, if "they" were injecting a weak virus, you & your camp would be accusing "them" of trying to make everyone sick with Covid. A big reason why the pre-Covid antivaxxers, and those against the flu vaccine, used to complain. Can't win either way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
