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In my little township over half of the properties are owned by non-residents. After all Maine is all about the great outdoors and going-to-camp.
What I see as 'camps' or secondary properties are not capable of full-time living. Not because of taxes, but because they are camps.
Everyone has their own idea of what Maine needs.
Do you really think that anyone who games the system this way is going to run the risk of being fined through the nose by answering statistics-seeking questions about their summer vs. winter residency practices?
I think we'll have to rely on those of us who have watched it happen since the dawn of time to provide anecdotal evidence unfortunately.
I see what you're saying, but I think you're not painting the other side of the picture to be honest. No offense intended, but there is another side to this "camp" business of Maine.
We sold our family camp a couple of years ago because none of us could afford the ever-increasing property taxes on it and our homes. It was either one or the other but not both. The camp had been in the family since 1984. The loan was paid for that year. The taxes had surpassed anything that we could afford on our own (for the last several years, the family put money in the tax till to help offset the cost). Those "All Maine is about the great outdoors and going-to-camp" people were building "summer homes" that drove the cost of everything up for those struggling to have a family camp. The towns the lakes that many of them are situated in are desperate for revenue because they have no other means to generate tax money. These "camps" were often better than the higher-end Maine family home and are a cash cow for cash-strapped municipalities.
Of course the exception is (such as yours - although your town is unique in that once upon a time it was a chartered town) the unorganized township. That's where those who seek true "rustic" conditions can look. For lands in lakes with no electricity run, no town services or schools to pay for, and no road maintenance, one can usually find a great deal on land on a lake with practically nothing for taxes. My uncle, for example, paid $15 bucks one year for his camp in an unorganized territory not that long ago.
Simply bring your generator (or flashlights, cooler, pee bucket, and propane for the gaslights) Jeep, and bottled water.
Maine needs what the rest of the US needs - industry with jobs that pay a living wage so we can all contribute to society IMO.
Good example of something that is a "steal" for anyone but the average middle-class Maine family:
I think you do too much demonizing of people who think differently from you. A lot of people have moved out of Maine in the last 100 years, and that has left a lot of abandoned towns and places. A lot of them were subsistence farmers and their kids didn't want to live that lifestyle. You will find their descendants in nearby towns and cities, as well as all over the country. It's the same thing in most rural areas in the country. Maine turned into woodland, while other places turned into huge farms. It's just the way the economy works. Along come some people who buy up some of it and want to preserve it. Who cares? What if some of it was turned into a national park? The horror! There might be a bunch of jobs in a place like Millinocket again. Look at the entrance to Acadia. Lots of jobs. On the other hand, maybe we could talk to big multinational corporations about starting up old mills again? Somehow I don't think they will be all that interested.
Do you really think that anyone who games the system this way is going to run the risk of being fined through the nose by answering statistics-seeking questions about their summer vs. winter residency practices?
I must have missed part of the conversation here. I am not aware of anyone 'gaming' a system.
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... I see what you're saying, but I think you're not painting the other side of the picture to be honest. No offense intended, but there is another side to this "camp" business of Maine.
No offense taken
Quote:
... We sold our family camp a couple of years ago because none of us could afford the ever-increasing property taxes on it and our homes. It was either one or the other but not both. The camp had been in the family since 1984. The loan was paid for that year. The taxes had surpassed anything that we could afford on our own (for the last several years, the family put money in the tax till to help offset the cost). Those "All Maine is about the great outdoors and going-to-camp" people were building "summer homes" that drove the cost of everything up for those struggling to have a family camp.
Someone building a camp would cause everyone else' township taxes to rise?
I fail to see how that happens.
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... (although your town is unique in that once upon a time it was a chartered town) the unorganized township.
There are 40 townships in Maine, that were each chartered at one time, but later decided to burn their charters.
Of course, the majority of Maine townships remain Unorganized as they have always been.
Quote:
... That's where those who seek true "rustic" conditions can look. For lands in lakes with no electricity run, no town services or schools to pay for, and no road maintenance, one can usually find a great deal on land on a lake with practically nothing for taxes. My uncle, for example, paid $15 bucks one year for his camp in an unorganized territory not that long ago.
Life in Maine is wonderful
Quote:
... Maine needs what the rest of the US needs - industry with jobs that pay a living wage so we can all contribute to society IMO.
I think you do too much demonizing of people who think differently from you. A lot of people have moved out of Maine in the last 100 years, and that has left a lot of abandoned towns and places. A lot of them were subsistence farmers and their kids didn't want to live that lifestyle.
Our nation has been seeing a long-term decline in the number of working farms.
There is one state though, that has been showing farm growth.
Each year there are more farms in Maine then there were the previous year.
I think you do too much demonizing of people who think differently from you. A lot of people have moved out of Maine in the last 100 years, and that has left a lot of abandoned towns and places. A lot of them were subsistence farmers and their kids didn't want to live that lifestyle. You will find their descendants in nearby towns and cities, as well as all over the country. It's the same thing in most rural areas in the country. Maine turned into woodland, while other places turned into huge farms. It's just the way the economy works. Along come some people who buy up some of it and want to preserve it. Who cares? What if some of it was turned into a national park? The horror! There might be a bunch of jobs in a place like Millinocket again. Look at the entrance to Acadia. Lots of jobs. On the other hand, maybe we could talk to big multinational corporations about starting up old mills again? Somehow I don't think they will be all that interested.
While a lot of what you say is true, up here in the County it's a different ballgame. Farming (of all sizes) is still very, very important. And the mills (especially in Madawaska) are major players. The Millinocket mills may yet be viable. Have to wait and see.
They are tearing down part of the old mill in Ashland so as to build on a new section. The new version opens in two months.
I think you do too much demonizing of people who think differently from you. A lot of people have moved out of Maine in the last 100 years, and that has left a lot of abandoned towns and places. A lot of them were subsistence farmers and their kids didn't want to live that lifestyle. You will find their descendants in nearby towns and cities, as well as all over the country. It's the same thing in most rural areas in the country. Maine turned into woodland, while other places turned into huge farms. It's just the way the economy works. Along come some people who buy up some of it and want to preserve it. Who cares? What if some of it was turned into a national park? The horror! There might be a bunch of jobs in a place like Millinocket again. Look at the entrance to Acadia. Lots of jobs. On the other hand, maybe we could talk to big multinational corporations about starting up old mills again? Somehow I don't think they will be all that interested.
It's not demonizing to point out that people do work the system when it comes to residency. It's been happening forever. I don't "think" this happens. I know it does.
Many people have left the state of Maine because jobs have dried up and blown away. It's not simply subsistence farmers and kids that didn't want to live that lifestyle. There are a myriad of reasons for this. A lot of those kids left because they couldn't find suitable work that paid enough to pay their loans and live without at least 1 roommate.
Millinocket is a town of which I have intimate experience. My ancestors played a large part in building it, and I spent a vast majority of my childhood there. I assure you it is but a shell of what it once was in its heyday. Nearly ALL of my relatives of my age have had to leave to find decent work. Sadly, it will never be what it once was. So be it. Many of the townspeople don't want a national park there, and a large number of people in this state don't want a national park there. The horror is that people who have leased land for their camps for generations are getting booted off, and people who have grown up and still enjoy coming home to recreate in the outdoors are losing access to it, so maybe it's not a horror to you, but it is to them. Not one of my many cousins still lives there due to the lack of jobs - not because they didn't want to. Yes, Roxanne owns it now and she can do what she likes with it, but the natives don't deserve to be villanized as haters of all things environmental. There will be a bunch of low-wage, tourism jobs, which once upon a time I agreed are better than nothing. Now not so much. This is because a large number of those who require welfare services to survive work for a living (despite what popular opinion seems to be).
Acadia is booming in the summer. It's a great place for recently-graduated high school students and college students to work. It's great for business owners who make their money during the summer.
When the tourists go, so go the jobs. Such is the life for tourism jobs.
I strongly feel it's unfair not to provide the whole picture of Maine and how diverse the taxes are on properties in various towns and townships. If that's pessimistic or negative, so be it. It's the truth.
When people build high-end properties on a lake, as it does everywhere else on the planet, it drives the value of the surrounding lakefront properties (and subsequent tax rates) up too.
And so, I'll take lack my lack of sunshine elsewhere and bow out of the conversation.
I agree with you reloop. Those tourism jobs aren't very great, but there are a lot of small businesses that live off of the tourism economy as well. They aren't big businesses either, and maybe there won't be too many of them even if some kind of a park was created, but it's something. We have a couple of small businesses on an island that are active only in the summer but they are a great thing to do. A job in tourism isn't going to replace a full time job with benefits in a mill, but it is better than no job at all. I also think that the small farm is making a comeback in Maine, and that's a very good thing. The town we live in has benefitted greatly from the farmer's market. I have watched as some of the part time farmers have moved up to making full time livings from their farms. It is a really bright spot in an otherwise down economy, but maybe it points the way where our economy should be moving.
I agree with you reloop. Those tourism jobs aren't very great, but there are a lot of small businesses that live off of the tourism economy as well. They aren't big businesses either, and maybe there won't be too many of them even if some kind of a park was created, but it's something. We have a couple of small businesses on an island that are active only in the summer but they are a great thing to do. A job in tourism isn't going to replace a full time job with benefits in a mill, but it is better than no job at all. I also think that the small farm is making a comeback in Maine, and that's a very good thing. The town we live in has benefitted greatly from the farmer's market. I have watched as some of the part time farmers have moved up to making full time livings from their farms. It is a really bright spot in an otherwise down economy, but maybe it points the way where our economy should be moving.
You're right. The number of farms in Maine is growing by about 100 year. It's encouraging. I'm impressed by the young people who are getting involved.
I stopped market farming three years ago but still have all of the equipment, including 2,500 sq ft of garden under high tunnels. This year I'm trying something new. A young man is using one tunnel with 1,000 sq ft. I'll spend the next 18 months or so teaching him how to use it and get him past the learning curve before he invests in his own. He's learning how to prune my apple trees so that he can revive his very old, overgrown orchard. He'll learn how to tend to the raspberries and strawberries, and will take around 100 raspberry canes home with him this spring. He's going to teach me how to grow grapes.
I'm also working with another young man who is in the process of starting his own market farm. Hard worker (kids these days...are awesome), dedicated, intelligent, has land, and an excellent location. These two young men (20 and 21 years old) work together on a lot of these projects. They'll make a decent amount of money this year, learn from their mistakes (I hope to save them from some mistakes), and figure out what they want to do and what they're not interested in. They'll be able to put up a year's worth of vegetables plus meat chickens and possibly pork this year. I think they'll be able to quit their day jobs and earn a living in 2016.
It's not demonizing to point out that people do work the system when it comes to residency. It's been happening forever. I don't "think" this happens. I know it does.
Millinocket is a town of which I have intimate experience. My ancestors played a large part in building it, and I spent a vast majority of my childhood there. I assure you it is but a shell of what it once was in its heyday. Nearly ALL of my relatives of my age have had to leave to find decent work. Sadly, it will never be what it once was. So be it. Many of the townspeople don't want a national park there, and a large number of people in this state don't want a national park there. The horror is that people who have leased land for their camps for generations are getting booted off, and people who have grown up and still enjoy coming home to recreate in the outdoors are losing access to it, so maybe it's not a horror to you, but it is to them. Not one of my many cousins still lives there due to the lack of jobs - not because they didn't want to. Yes, Roxanne owns it now and she can do what she likes with it, but the natives don't deserve to be villanized as haters of all things environmental. There will be a bunch of low-wage, tourism jobs, which once upon a time I agreed are better than nothing. Now not so much. This is because a large number of those who require welfare services to survive work for a living (despite what popular opinion seems to be).
Acadia is booming in the summer. It's a great place for recently-graduated high school students and college students to work. It's great for business owners who make their money during the summer.
When the tourists go, so go the jobs. Such is the life for tourism jobs.
And so, I'll take lack my lack of sunshine elsewhere and bow out of the conversation.
The thing about having a big park outside of Millinocket is that there already IS one!! One that is ten times better than anything that Quimby can put together. So that idea just makes no sense whatsoever.
Don't let that fact stop the Quimbyites, though....
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