Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The sad thing is that people don't believe solid research, maybe you can find a source where most illegal guns don't come from other states.
You are missing the point. Illegal guns all come from _somewhere_. If they are illegal they are - by definition - obtained illegally.
Quote:
It's not a "spin" the article is based on facts from Johns Hopkins and the ATF, much too easy to acquire guns in many states and they are imported here. Maybe you don't understand that we have strict laws in NY.
With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Congratulations, you read a NYT article where facts are either ignored or distorted.
Have you ever legally purchased a handgun in NYS? In another state? How about a long gun? Neither has the author of the article you reference. You are both regurgitating political talking points.
As I have mentioned, a NY resident cannot walk into a gun store in Virginia and legally purchase a handgun to bring it to NY. Period. The only way to legally do so would involve shipping to a NY FFL and go through the (in this case) normal Suffolk County process.
If a NY resident walks out of a Virginia gun store with a handgun, the purchase was illegal. Illegal in VA, illegal to NY. It has nothing to do with VA gun laws as those laws were broken. I believe it is also a federal crime.
Again, Vermont does not require a license to purchase and possess a handgun. Their laws are much less strict than NY or VA. NH is also closer to NY. Why drive all the way to VA where they are supposed to ask for your VA license to purchase? It's because the dealers _breaking the law_ were in VA.
So yes, the media misleads. It is true that VA has less strict handgun laws than NY. It is also true that there were some gun shops in VA engaging in illegal sales. The misleading part is that those facts are unrelated.
You don't like guns. You are entitled to your opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Take a moment to learn the truth. I know how it works from experience and learning with NRA instructors, lawyers, FFLs, clubs, police, and others who work in this area daily. The NYT has an agenda and absolutely no experience or authority in this area. They are as bad as the half-wit politician with the “Shoulder thing that goes up.”
You definitely can, but you can only buy one that's legal in your home state (so you can't drive to another state to buy an AR-15 as a New York resident).
I always had it in my head that there was a federal prohibition for non-contiguous states. Seems it is (was?) a NY thing (Section 265.40). From what I understand, a court ruling may have invalidated that rule.
I just checked the ATF website and you are correct:
Quote:
Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides. [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.99(a)]
The first half says you can't, then the second half says you can (the difference being in-person sales).
The thing is, most dealers outside of NY won't sell to a NY resident. Why bother when the NY laws are so convoluted? You can sell a shotgun to a Nassau resident but will get in trouble selling to his neighbor 1 mile to the west in Queens. (For those keeping score, a NICS check is required if a purchase is made).
Some AR configurations are legal in NY - how is a PA or CT dealer supposed to know all the nuances of NY rules? Answer is that they don't care about the details - they just refuse to sell (directly) to a NY resident. It's the easiest way to stay "compliant."
You are missing the point. Illegal guns all come from _somewhere_. If they are illegal they are - by definition - obtained illegally.
With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Congratulations, you read a NYT article where facts are either ignored or distorted.
Have you ever legally purchased a handgun in NYS? In another state? How about a long gun? Neither has the author of the article you reference. You are both regurgitating political talking points.
As I have mentioned, a NY resident cannot walk into a gun store in Virginia and legally purchase a handgun to bring it to NY. Period. The only way to legally do so would involve shipping to a NY FFL and go through the (in this case) normal Suffolk County process.
If a NY resident walks out of a Virginia gun store with a handgun, the purchase was illegal. Illegal in VA, illegal to NY. It has nothing to do with VA gun laws as those laws were broken. I believe it is also a federal crime.
Again, Vermont does not require a license to purchase and possess a handgun. Their laws are much less strict than NY or VA. NH is also closer to NY. Why drive all the way to VA where they are supposed to ask for your VA license to purchase? It's because the dealers _breaking the law_ were in VA.
So yes, the media misleads. It is true that VA has less strict handgun laws than NY. It is also true that there were some gun shops in VA engaging in illegal sales. The misleading part is that those facts are unrelated.
You don't like guns. You are entitled to your opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Take a moment to learn the truth. I know how it works from experience and learning with NRA instructors, lawyers, FFLs, clubs, police, and others who work in this area daily. The NYT has an agenda and absolutely no experience or authority in this area. They are as bad as the half-wit politician with the “Shoulder thing that goes up.”
Bravo Sierra
You said "Most illegal guns are not the result of "weak" laws." I already pointed out that most guns used in a crime come from other states, I quoted the ATF and also a Fox News article, you're welcome to provide an article that states differently. Don't like them then here is a study done by the NY AG. I guess you were unaware that the ATF is the source not the FBI, you also didn't know that you can't buy an AR-15 in another state either. Also did you know that privates sales and gun shows don't require a FFL in many of those states? But sure I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm glad NYS has tough gun laws it takes months to get a license, in other states it's 72 hours if done through an FFL, no time at all for a gun show.
I tried. After this I'm done with the conversation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
You said "Most illegal guns are not the result of "weak" laws." I already pointed out that most guns used in a crime come from other states, I quoted the ATF and also a Fox News article, you're welcome to provide an article that states differently. Don't like them then here is a study done by the NY AG.
You are still not reading what I wrote and refuse to accept facts. A NY resident cannot legally purchase a handgun from a store in another state. PERIOD. It doesn't matter how "weak" their laws are. Breaking a "weak" law in another state is no different than breaking a "strong" law in NYS. Which is all separate from the federal regulations on the matter.
Quote:
I guess you were unaware that the ATF is the source not the FBI,
The only FBI reference I made was to crime statistics. The study I alluded to is FBI data, not ATF data. If you are referring to the source of the link you posted, that was done by NYS, not the ATF.
Quote:
you also didn't know that you can't buy an AR-15 in another state either.
Not sure where you are getting that from. My original assertion was that you can't buy a _long gun_ (which covers more than ARs) in other than a contiguous state. While the "contiguous" NYS requirement is still on the books, it seems to have been nullified by a court decision. As I stated, the point is moot since I have never found an out-of-state dealer that will sell to a NY resident (without shipping to a NY FFL).
If you find one who will (the transaction is legal) you will still have to submit to a NICS check, same exact process as in NY. But of course, that is all about long guns. The thread is about handguns, as is the focus of the NYS study you reference.
Quote:
Also did you know that privates sales and gun shows don't require a FFL in many of those states?
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the infamous "gun show loophole."
Yes, there are states that still allow private sales of rifles (we were discussing handguns) without a NICS check or FFL involvement.
That does NOT apply to gun show vendors, as any dealer at a gun show must still do a NICS check. The private sale issue is highly overstated. It makes a good soundbite, but does not factor into illegal guns making their way into NY.
Handgun sales, private or otherwise, are still subject to state and federal laws, both of which prohibit sale to an out-of-state resident.
Quote:
But sure I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about.
On this, we are in total agreement.
Quote:
I'm glad NYS has tough gun laws it takes months to get a license, in other states, it's 72 hours if done through an FFL, no time at all for a gun show.
This sentence alone (which makes no sense) shows how far off the mark you are. FFLs do not issue a handgun license in NY or any other state. You are confused about the difference between a handgun license, and the purchasing processes (which are different for handguns and long guns). You conflate entirely different topics.
For the last time - even in a state where you can purchase a handgun without a pistol license, you are still required to provide an ID and submit to a background check. If you show a NY ID in, for example, VA, it would be an illegal purchase. That is the law. You must be a resident of the state.
In addition to state law, there is federal law that states you may only purchase a handgun in a state in which you do not have residency if it is transferred through a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) in that state and mailed to an FFL in your state.
For the umpteenth time, a NY resident CAN NOT walk into a gun shop in another state and legally walk out with a handgun. PERIOD. FULL STOP. In addition to state laws, there is a federal law that applies to ALL 50 states. The only way this can happen is when the original purchase is done illegally (straw or dealer who breaks the law). It's not a weak law. It's an illegal activity.
Put another way:
Let's say NY has a sentence of five years for stealing a car. Let's say that VA has a sentence of 18 months for stealing a car. In this hypothetical example, NY has a "stronger" than VA.
A NYer steals a car in VA and drives it home to NY. Is that stolen car the result of VA's "weak" laws? Of course not. It was a crime there and it's a crime here. They didn't legally obtain the car in VA and smuggle it to NY where it is only now considered stolen.
Final note: I would like to see your defense of all these same laws applied to other rights such as voting, speech, or religion.
All the best to you. I do hope you one day see the light.
I tried. After this I'm done with the conversation:
You are still not reading what I wrote and refuse to accept facts. A NY resident cannot legally purchase a handgun from a store in another state. PERIOD. It doesn't matter how "weak" their laws are. Breaking a "weak" law in another state is no different than breaking a "strong" law in NYS. Which is all separate from the federal regulations on the matter.
The only FBI reference I made was to crime statistics. The study I alluded to is FBI data, not ATF data. If you are referring to the source of the link you posted, that was done by NYS, not the ATF.
Not sure where you are getting that from. My original assertion was that you can't buy a _long gun_ (which covers more than ARs) in other than a contiguous state. While the "contiguous" NYS requirement is still on the books, it seems to have been nullified by a court decision. As I stated, the point is moot since I have never found an out-of-state dealer that will sell to a NY resident (without shipping to a NY FFL).
If you find one who will (the transaction is legal) you will still have to submit to a NICS check, same exact process as in NY. But of course, that is all about long guns. The thread is about handguns, as is the focus of the NYS study you reference.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the infamous "gun show loophole."
Yes, there are states that still allow private sales of rifles (we were discussing handguns) without a NICS check or FFL involvement.
That does NOT apply to gun show vendors, as any dealer at a gun show must still do a NICS check. The private sale issue is highly overstated. It makes a good soundbite, but does not factor into illegal guns making their way into NY.
Handgun sales, private or otherwise, are still subject to state and federal laws, both of which prohibit sale to an out-of-state resident.
On this, we are in total agreement.
This sentence alone (which makes no sense) shows how far off the mark you are. FFLs do not issue a handgun license in NY or any other state. You are confused about the difference between a handgun license, and the purchasing processes (which are different for handguns and long guns). You conflate entirely different topics.
For the last time - even in a state where you can purchase a handgun without a pistol license, you are still required to provide an ID and submit to a background check. If you show a NY ID in, for example, VA, it would be an illegal purchase. That is the law. You must be a resident of the state.
In addition to state law, there is federal law that states you may only purchase a handgun in a state in which you do not have residency if it is transferred through a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) in that state and mailed to an FFL in your state.
For the umpteenth time, a NY resident CAN NOT walk into a gun shop in another state and legally walk out with a handgun. PERIOD. FULL STOP. In addition to state laws, there is a federal law that applies to ALL 50 states. The only way this can happen is when the original purchase is done illegally (straw or dealer who breaks the law). It's not a weak law. It's an illegal activity.
Put another way:
Let's say NY has a sentence of five years for stealing a car. Let's say that VA has a sentence of 18 months for stealing a car. In this hypothetical example, NY has a "stronger" than VA.
A NYer steals a car in VA and drives it home to NY. Is that stolen car the result of VA's "weak" laws? Of course not. It was a crime there and it's a crime here. They didn't legally obtain the car in VA and smuggle it to NY where it is only now considered stolen.
Final note: I would like to see your defense of all these same laws applied to other rights such as voting, speech, or religion.
All the best to you. I do hope you one day see the light.
We can’t even buy ammo out of state mail order without it being shipped to a local FFL holder first …
I have a guy I deal with in Long Island who has an FFL who accepts shipments for 10 bucks or so over cost
That’s just NYC, you can have ammo shipped to your door in the rest of NY. Some sellers have a policy of only shipping to an FFL for all of NY state, some ship to anywhere but NYC, and some also exclude Nassau and Westchester counties.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
