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All of it drives up costs. What you leave out is that special ed trans and such are usually mandated by the Feds and/or state in return for AID/grant (MONEY). Without the aid, the schools wouldn't have a fart in a stiff breeze of balancing these budgets contending with those contractual raises and pension increases. There is not enough revenue, not even from bleeding the taxpayers. Cuomo's tax cap (though manipulated) has forced control out of the insane LI districts in small measure back to the state, to the total angst of the local schools...until that aid money comes!!
Also, as I've mentioned many times here, after the teachers union, civil service and their families vote, well....there's most of your 5k voters. How can they lose?
For another thread...but... we had open house at my sons middle school last night. 6 teachers in a moderate middle class neighborhood (rhymes with Shmevittown)...$126k (6th grade art, ?!?!), $129k, $111k, $136k, $132k, 125k. Most of the parents crowding the rooms make far less and are killing themselves to sustain this insanity. Also, we (not ME, WE, a number of us sucker parents) noticed most of the parents were fat and pasty. Most of the teachers were thin and relaxed. Nice to have summer's off I guess.
I can BS on where my area is. Because the IN-DISTRICT special ed is DRIVING the costs up. It cost us over 10K last year to get ONE student from a private special ed school for a soccer game three nights a week! In LI-everything is over-bloated.
I am civil service. I make 37K. I pay 9K for my health insurance out of that. Tell me again how I am making a killing? I took a test to better myself, and I am LOSING. I have to pay a extra $90 a month for dental for my family with a 2K cap. Yet tax payers tell ME i make to much money. Could YOU and your family live on that? Really? With the "Cap" on taxes, I've not seen ONE raise since I landed this job in 2011. I challenge YOU to cut out all the stuff to live on what I make as a civil servant. Could you? But newbies from down below vote time and time again against my department and I end up not being able to pay my bills. And for what it's worth, I did go to college. Useless piece of paper in business.
I can BS on where my area is. Because the IN-DISTRICT special ed is DRIVING the costs up. It cost us over 10K last year to get ONE student from a private special ed school for a soccer game three nights a week! In LI-everything is over-bloated.
I am civil service. I make 37K. I pay 9K for my health insurance out of that. Tell me again how I am making a killing? I took a test to better myself, and I am LOSING. I have to pay a extra $90 a month for dental for my family with a 2K cap. Yet tax payers tell ME i make to much money. Could YOU and your family live on that? Really? With the "Cap" on taxes, I've not seen ONE raise since I landed this job in 2011. I challenge YOU to cut out all the stuff to live on what I make as a civil servant. Could you? But newbies from down below vote time and time again against my department and I end up not being able to pay my bills. And for what it's worth, I did go to college. Useless piece of paper in business.
I know I will sound like a a-hole. The tax cap is the best thing that ever happened. Do some people like yourself not get raises sure. The amount of home owners state wide that save compared to the few that don't get raises and are affected by schools cuts is undeniable. If 100 people in my district don't get a raise but the 25k homes get a tax hike of $50 instead of $600 it's worth it.
Unless your a teacher, principal or administrator working at a school is a bad job. The others do well because of there union.
Dont matter...give them their salaries but put their retirement to a 3% match on 6% and see how much taxes would come down. I dont think people fully understand how big the pension is. Think about you retiring and getting 70% of that current salary!! For ever! Its just nuts.
Don't forget the free medical many of them get for themselves AND their spouse... FOR LIFE!!! I know people who work in some of the school districts doing custodial work. They get paid pretty decent to do this kind of work too. Some districts pay close to 50k to start. And get this, some districts offer (in their contract), FULL MEDICAL... FOR LIFE... for employee AND SPOUSE... just after 10 YEARS!!! And even leading up to the 10 year mark they hardly pay anything. So someone could potentially just put in 10 years and walk away with a small pension and free healthcare. And that's just a custodian.
I know I will sound like a a-hole. The tax cap is the best thing that ever happened. Do some people like yourself not get raises sure. The amount of home owners state wide that save compared to the few that don't get raises and are affected by schools cuts is undeniable. If 100 people in my district don't get a raise but the 25k homes get a tax hike of $50 instead of $600 it's worth it.
Unless your a teacher, principal or administrator working at a school is a bad job. The others do well because of there union.
Scary part is I am with a union-the CSEA. It's a very weak one compared to the counter parts here in our county or even the lower counties. Sad when I have people working under me who pay union dues and work 35+ hours and yet they qualify for food stamps or section 8 housing. Now isn't that a drain on the system. Add to it, the union says since I am full time, I get less an hour to supervise my drivers,yet I have the same qualifications as they do as I have a CDL also. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? I can drive trips, but why would I when I'd be makes $40 less on one than they do?
Taxpayers are always complaining in this district that there aren't enough minorities working as teachers. That young teachers aren't applying. Well if your starting salary for teaching is just 36K and rents start at $1600 a month for a studio, do they really think they are going to be able to attract them?
Wall St. is the old standby boogieman in all arguments from them. The union tarts up CEO pay and points fingers at Wall Street to defend this public sector usury.
If not for Wall Street and NYC salaries this place would have no viable economy. LI's shark jumped when Grumman left, in case you didn't notice. A NYC recession would be an unmitigated disaster for LI and local budgets slashed. Inevitably a correction will happen and there will be consolidation/cutbacks/heads rolling.
You may not be affected personally, but it will be ugly.
You can use whatever arguments you like to justify the pay and benefits, but the numbers don't support your arguments. Thousands of angry, broke taxpayers mingling with rich cops and teachers is a bad mix. Arguing with me is pointless as it's all in the math. The economy is not what it used to be, and this is unsustainable.
I'm actually leaving here while we're in a r.e. bubble, and not posting on a hot platform. Thanks to the internet I work virtually and can live anywhere I want. Wall Street has also been shifting more backroom jobs to cheaper areas, and slowly shrinking the NY metro employment base.
This is a red flag for the rich public sector. Be worried. A correction is looming.
Doubt it. The Asians, middle eastern and Hispanic immigrants and second generation are going to support this place for the next 20-40 years just like the Europeans have for the last 40. This same post has been made on this same forum for the last decade.
Doubt it. The Asians, middle eastern and Hispanic immigrants and second generation are going to support this place for the next 20-40 years just like the Europeans have for the last 40. This same post has been made on this same forum for the last decade.
Correct.
I suspect there is a therapeutic quality though in inventing and spreading civil service and union fantasies that accounts for the musings of a few multi-posters.
Beyond that, it is generally accepted that those moving from cities, as well as immigrants and children of residents, more that make up for any rumored fleeing of folks from the purportedly dying Long Island.
I can BS on where my area is. Because the IN-DISTRICT special ed is DRIVING the costs up. It cost us over 10K last year to get ONE student from a private special ed school for a soccer game three nights a week! In LI-everything is over-bloated. .
I agree. My district busses a kid to Orange County upstate to see a tutor. We really can't find a decent tutor closer to home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CampingMom
I am civil service. I make 37K. I pay 9K for my health insurance out of that. Tell me again how I am making a killing? I took a test to better myself, and I am LOSING. I have to pay a extra $90 a month for dental for my family with a 2K cap. Yet tax payers tell ME i make to much money. Could YOU and your family live on that? Really? With the "Cap" on taxes, I've not seen ONE raise since I landed this job in 2011. I challenge YOU to cut out all the stuff to live on what I make as a civil servant. Could you? But newbies from down below vote time and time again against my department and I end up not being able to pay my bills. And for what it's worth, I did go to college. Useless piece of paper in business.
I have no idea what any of this has to do with my post.
Correct.
I suspect there is a therapeutic quality though in inventing and spreading civil service and union fantasies that accounts for the musings of a few multi-posters.
^ a "few" posters? Seems everyone agrees unions made it worse for the general paying public here on LI. I don't know how CampingMom from upstate got mixed into the overpaid talk.
For me personally, it is not therapy to ****** about them. All I've ever wanted is for it to be acknowledged publicly and we're seeing that, at least here (though less so among our peers in person). Those who actually attempt to defend it clearly have had personal gain from it.
Doubt it. The Asians, middle eastern and Hispanic immigrants and second generation are going to support this place for the next 20-40 years just like the Europeans have for the last 40. This same post has been made on this same forum for the last decade.
Actually I will submit the opposite. The immigrant families will lead the move towards Magnets and Charters, if not flat out vouchers, and inevitably the NYSUT and LI battalions will fall (at least a little). The new arrivals are not going to eat 1950's style cronyism and Ponzi job/benefit corruption very long, because unlike previous waves of immigrants, they can't benefit from it. Tier 6 just not as enticing and with enrollments falling, we'll be paying for some early retirements to get salaries off the books to balance tax cap budgets facing reduced State Aid (see: Newsday 2 days ago, the Aid threats have begun...part of the annual "Fleecing of the Taxpayer" scare-down, lol). The chips towards transit based development are starting to align. Some Queens-ification is coming, if not already here.
Didn't even get to online education yet. That will be another dart in the hind end of the current public school system. They already mirror programs online. My 6th grader has so many logins to math and other programs, he needs a computer just for that. If they hand out a web address and a login and you can access the course materials, the teacher's role eventually will be significantly reduced. That's just the nature of technology and job place productivity. They can't insulate themselves from it forever. "Do you want the INTERNET teaching your children?!"" "VOTE YES ON THE BUDGET or the INTERWEBZ WILL TAKE OVER OUR SCHOOLS!" I can hear it as clear as a LI volunteer fire alarm.
Immigrant families tend to be pro-work and leery of big govt. They aren't opposed to privatization...in fact they tend to be the small business owners that benefit from it. See the Kumons expanding all over?! Private tutoring? Colleges like Hofstra offering programs to grade-schoolers (robotics, art) that the schools cut but parents want. Yeah, the schools will be feeling competition pressures soon enough.
Thinking new immigrants are just fresh blood from new stones may be shortsighted. They are likely going to be the ones who find a way to redirect tax money from the schools to more varied education options. The poor immigrants will be reliant on the schools, but since you're talking about the ones who will "support this for the next 20-40 years", I'm guessing you're talking about middle class immigrants. Seeing the improvements in Hicksville's business climate, test scores, general appearance and the obvious Indian-ification of the area leads me to believe change is a-comin'. Did anyone predict a massive Indian cultural center in good ole Americana, Hicksville, USA, birthpace of Billy Joel hisself!?!
The reason for the explosion: Low taxes in Hicksville (ok, low-ish, lol) and a good transit hub. Hmmm.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 09-15-2016 at 08:17 AM..
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