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I know that the speculated math helps the argument, but let's break down my pay as a new teacher in the CCSD. Before taxes, every 2 weeks I get paid 1400 dollars. 1400/10 days= 140. 140/7 hours=20. So, I'm making 20 dollars an hour. The "benefits" package that you've included in your estimate gives me sub-par health insurance that doesn't cover a medication that I need because it doesn't come in generic form. Subtract 300 dollars a month from my salary. Going to physical therapy twice a week costs me 60 dollars a week in copays, there's another 240. When I added up my receipts for taxes, I spent 750 dollars on my classroom from September to January. While I understand that I have track breaks, I was doing things for work for most of that time.
I don't mind any of the above. I love my job, I live a comfortable life, and I work the extra time because I want to be the best I can for my students. I think most educators on here would agree. The reason I'm even breaking down my personal business is because it's really disheartening to put everything you have into something, only to be bashed by people who haven't seen the inside of a classroom since they graduated high school. I'm with teachers all day long. I don't hear them complaining. The teachers in this discussion haven't been complaining, they've been defending themselves. Something no other profession seems to have to do on this forum.
I personally think teachers are underpaid, but when I posted the high costs of salaries vs. the school budget, I wasn't pinpointing teachers salaries. I was also including the support staff. When I worked at a school district in CA, janitors would be making 25-30 an hour because they have been in the union for so long, they get the step raises yearly. I just think there is a lot of wasted money in the school system. I guess anytime you have the government run something, it always costs more.
I have to disagree....somewhat... I think it has more to do with how expensive our society has become which means that both parents have to work just to make ends meet and leave their kids home alone with the tv for a babysitter.
I am fortunate to have a job that allows me to be home when my kids are home for the most part. I have strict rules about when I am not home, no one comes in and no one goes out as well as no pool. However, our evenings during the school year are spent with our children at their various sporting events and during the summer they are on a swim team as well as attending several soccer camps.
I also think it has a lot to do with the cutting back and/or elimination of PE from a lot of schools. And don't even get me started on the way the media markets junk food to kids as being "good for you".
I also think it has a lot to do with our lifestyles today, a lot of fast food because we are always in a hurry. I remember as a kid we only had McDonalds when we were traveling. I have to admit that during the height of soccer season my kids can have fast food sometimes as much as 3 times a week (I hate it, but it's so convenient sometimes)
So, while fear may play a factor, I think it has more to do with the general laziness of our culture as a whole.
CCSD has not cut back or eliminated PE and personally I don't think PE is a great idea, but a recess where each student can decide what they want to do and manage their time, whether they want to play or sit and talk. Remember playing sports is not for everybody.
I am not a teacher, and I have no issue with what teachers are paid. Athletes are the first profession I would go after as being overpaid and not teachers.
I think some parents expect teachers to teach kids so they have no homework and learn everything in school. I work shift work like many and my son knows that if I am working during the evening and won't be home until after he goes to bed his backpack and homework better be on the table waiting for me to review. I also maintain communication with his teachers. For 4th grade he did have a terrible teacher who transferred from New York. I complained to the principal and I guess so did others and the next year she was gone. Next year my son will be starting middle school I know things will be different and that he will have 6 different teachers and I will not likely have the same level of communication with his teachers. Another thing I always hear how bad the schools are here in Vegas. We have friends who have kids who have attended and graduated with honors from Legacy and Mojave. Yes those schools are not perfect and there is violence but what school is perfect. You get out of schools what you put in to them, yes there are problems but it is not all doom and gloom for Las Vegas schools.
I have to disagree....somewhat... I think it has more to do with how expensive our society has become which means that both parents have to work just to make ends meet and leave their kids home alone with the tv for a babysitter.
I am fortunate to have a job that allows me to be home when my kids are home for the most part. I have strict rules about when I am not home, no one comes in and no one goes out as well as no pool. However, our evenings during the school year are spent with our children at their various sporting events and during the summer they are on a swim team as well as attending several soccer camps.
I also think it has a lot to do with the cutting back and/or elimination of PE from a lot of schools. And don't even get me started on the way the media markets junk food to kids as being "good for you".
I also think it has a lot to do with our lifestyles today, a lot of fast food because we are always in a hurry. I remember as a kid we only had McDonalds when we were traveling. I have to admit that during the height of soccer season my kids can have fast food sometimes as much as 3 times a week (I hate it, but it's so convenient sometimes)
So, while fear may play a factor, I think it has more to do with the general laziness of our culture as a whole.
You just brought up another educational bureaucratic disaster. Fast food and lunch. I agree with you about the ads convincing kids that it is ok. I dont like it either. But what the hell are they going to do? When we were kids we got 55 minutes for lunch period. Today the kids get 20 minutes. After the time it takes to walk or run like hell to the cafeteria and then wait in line to buy lunch, there is no time to eat!!! Is it good for anyone to wolf down your lunch so fast that one cant even taste it? It is worse to not even eat. How can one concentrate when ones stomach is growling?
So the only choice are those damn vending machines. I agree with putting more healthier food in them but I do not agree with taking them out or any govt control at all with what goes in them. That is wrong.
They gotta cut lunch though.....they gotta get more algebra in there. Something no one ever needs. Except algebra teachers.
While I don't agree 100% with you, I do apologize for going a little overboard. It IS frustrating being a teacher today. and I am NOT whining about the pay, I am, I guess for lack of a better word, whining about the constraints the government has put on us that does not allow us to do our jobs. I don't know any other profession that is so dictated to by the government. Sometimes I feel like teachers shouldn't even have to go to college because the government obviously doesn't trust the value of their degree, they are going to cram their teaching methods down our throats anyway.
If a lawyer has a law degree you expect them do know what they are doing, same with a physician, engineer etc. so why can't those of us with a degree in education be allowed to do our jobs also?
Well we are on the same side here. Stop giving homework and Im really with ya. (just kidding)
The govt trusts no one. Unfortunatly most people trust the govt. Not me. Im way too sharp to be fooled.
Keep up the good work dispite the commies telling you how to do it.
I know that the speculated math helps the argument, but let's break down my pay as a new teacher in the CCSD. Before taxes, every 2 weeks I get paid 1400 dollars. 1400/10 days= 140. 140/7 hours=20. So, I'm making 20 dollars an hour. The "benefits" package that you've included in your estimate gives me sub-par health insurance that doesn't cover a medication that I need because it doesn't come in generic form. Subtract 300 dollars a month from my salary. Going to physical therapy twice a week costs me 60 dollars a week in copays, there's another 240. When I added up my receipts for taxes, I spent 750 dollars on my classroom from September to January. While I understand that I have track breaks, I was doing things for work for most of that time.
I don't mind any of the above. I love my job, I live a comfortable life, and I work the extra time because I want to be the best I can for my students. I think most educators on here would agree. The reason I'm even breaking down my personal business is because it's really disheartening to put everything you have into something, only to be bashed by people who haven't seen the inside of a classroom since they graduated high school. I'm with teachers all day long. I don't hear them complaining. The teachers in this discussion haven't been complaining, they've been defending themselves. Something no other profession seems to have to do on this forum.
Ok lets use your numbers.
Can you name anyone making $20/hr in this city? Sure there are a few but chances you know one are slim. Lets not include govt workers and union workers for this example. Chances now that you know some one making $20/hr are almost zero.
Now, all those bills and expenses you mentioned are something every single working slob has also. Some worse. But one main difference is the working slobs put in 8 solid hours and how many do Teachers do?
All I ever hear are teachers staying overtime for additional hours doing extra work. I say hogwash. It may have been 30 years since high school but I remember ever so clear that when that bell rang, most of those teachers were the first out that door and into their cars. I know because I watched them from the bus window. I suspect they wanted to beat the school buses so they would not get stuck behind them.
Either way I do not believe Teachers as a whole work as many hours as they claim.
Can you name anyone making $20/hr in this city? Sure there are a few but chances you know one are slim. Lets not include govt workers and union workers for this example. Chances now that you know some one making $20/hr are almost zero.
Average for a BS in education - $33,000. So I guess $35,000 isn't too far off.
You can argue they are only working 9 months, but education is a good bit below the average starting salary for a college grad. This makes sense. A teacher cannot find a good paying job for the 3 months in the summer, but that time off does have value. So you would expect some give and take and that is exactly what you get with teachers getting a little more than 3/4 of the average for a business degree. On average better benefits but typically less long-term earning potential.
Like I said, teachers aren't underpaid but they aren't overpaid, either.
Average for a BS in education - $33,000. So I guess $35,000 isn't too far off.
You can argue they are only working 9 months, but education is a good bit below the average starting salary for a college grad. This makes sense. A teacher cannot find a good paying job for the 3 months in the summer, but that time off does have value. So you would expect some give and take and that is exactly what you get with teachers getting a little more than 3/4 of the average for a business degree. On average better benefits but typically less long-term earning potential.
Like I said, teachers aren't underpaid but they aren't overpaid, either.
You can name plenty huh. How long you been here? Give us 10 first names only.
Sorry but your argument can not be won and I will leave it at that so as not to insult the Teachers we have in here.
You can name plenty huh. How long you been here? Give us 10 first names only.
Sorry but your argument can not be won and I will leave it at that so as not to insult the Teachers we have in here.
How about everyone I work with? They all have college degrees and all make more than teachers.
Your skepticism that I could not name 10 people says a lot about you and what you do. Honestly, what cave do you live in to think a professional wouldn't know 10 people who make $20+ an hour? I will guarantee most professionals have at least 10 colleagues, mostly with college degrees, making $20+ an hour, and have networks and contacts much bigger than that. Heck, the janitor at the Wynn can probably name 10 salaried people just in his department making a lot more than $20 an hour.
Quite simply the most ignorant challenge I have ever seen. And you think you argument is infallible? For someone not wanting to insult teachers, you sure just embarrassed yours.
Last edited by ClarkGrisowld; 07-07-2008 at 09:27 PM..
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