[swagger]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

I assure you there is more feast than famine for the business . Now the worker making an hourly wage of around 15 an hour, where is the feast ?

You have CLEARLY never run a business.

Let me give you a snapshot of a real world business to give you some perspective on this issue.

First, some background.

For the first couple of years after my girlfriend and I started our business, we were just scraping by. At least a couple of times per week, we would have boiled pinto beans for dinner, sometimes with a few strips of bacon cut up in it - when we could afford it. We baked our own bread. Having beef or chicken with dinner was a luxury. We worked (and still work) 12+ hours per day, to nurture and grow our business out of the former bedroom of one of her sons, who had to surrender it and bunk with his brother in order for us to have some space for the business. Sometimes I would drive to California to do some side work for a friend, just so we could make the rent.

We're in our fifth year now, and we're finally making enough to not have to worry about paying the bills, and we can even put a little away for retirement. We have one of her sons working for us part time, under the table (cheap family labor, but we're being taxed on his income, and at a much higher rate than he would be).

Finally, we're ready to hire someone new. We have an actual physical office, with the infrastructure to support us and a couple of employees.

There's someone that my g/f has worked with previously who wants to come and work for us. She has experience, which in our business is a HUGE plus. She's asking for barely more than minimum wage, even though her skills and experience are worth twice that, easily.

It's a slam dunk, right? But it's not.

The cost to a business for hiring an employee is around 30% more than their salary - and that doesn't include any benefits that might be offered. There's payroll tax. Unemployment insurance. Workers comp insurance. Liability insurance. Payroll services. Business licenses cost more when you have employees. Extra employees means extra computers. Extra electricity. Extra air conditioning. Extra coffee and bottled water. All this stuff is only required after you hire an employee. As a business that's operated completely by the owners, we don't have to deal with all those extra costs. When you hire someone, that $15 per hour is closer to $20, easily. That's $200 per week difference. Over $800 per month. And again, that's before any benefits are considered.

So while the employee may only see about $2,100 or so in take home pay per month for that $15/hr job, it's costing the employer closer to $3,500. That's a pretty dramatic difference. And not to sound like a broken record, but that's before benefits are added. Health insurance, 401(k) contributions, paid vacation time, sick days... all that stuff is costs an employer money, and it's not an insignificant amount.

So the next time you want to whine and complain about what wage any particular job pays, think about this discussion and think about what the real cost to the employer is, and ask yourself - is the job that person will be performing really adding that much value to the company? Is that person going to be making the company more than the total cost of providing that job? if not, then it's not cost effective for the employer to offer that position at the rate you think is fair, and despite what you may want to believe, employers aren't in business to make sure you can pay for the things you've voluntarily obligated yourself to pay. We don't work 70-80 hours per week, every week, with no vacation and no sick days for years so that we can provide you with whatever arbitrary amount you think you should get.

As for your "feast or famine" nonsense... The LAST people in the company to be paid are the owners. If the business is struggling, the employees still get their paychecks, as long as the money is in the bank to cover those checks. The last company I worked for was a tech company that suffered quite a bit when the dot com bubble burst. For over a year, the upper management of that company were salaried at $2 per month. I know this to be true because I was the IT manager for that business and I would occasionally abuse my "god" access on the network and peek into the payroll software. When I was managing a retail store several years prior to that, there were some weeks that the business didn't even gross enough to cover payroll. Do you think that the owners got paid for those weeks?

[Onlyliveonce]

I am not whining, it sounds like you are. I did not need or ask for your life story. As a retired young man " I have no dog in the fight ". It sounds like you have a dog in the fight after reading your post. The main idea of starting this thread was to show a need for either higher wages ( again I am not looking to work ) or prices falling on goods and services. I have no complaints in my life As I have made my bones in life by age 42. I am only concerned for what the future holds for my children.

[swagger]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

I am not whining, it sounds like you are.

Yes, you are whining.

All I did was explain the kind of sweat equity that's invested into a business just to get it off the ground. I described the reality of what it costs, above and beyond salary, to hire an employee. Most people who complain about wages - and in particular, those that use the term "living wage" in any context - have literally no clue about these things.

I have no regrets about the path I've chosen, and was not complaining about any of it. I don't mind working to achieve my goals or living lean while walking that path. Too many people these days simply want it all handed to them, and would never have accepted the hardships we went through without a guaranteed payoff in the near term.

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

I did not need or ask for your life story.

And you didn't get it. What you DID get was some badly needed perspective on the topic you chose to start.

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

As a retired young man " I have no dog in the fight ". ... I am only concerned for what the future holds for my children.

Which is it? Do you have "a dog in the fight" or not? If not, then let your kids follow their path and make themselves valuable to employers, instead of demanding that employers pay more than a job is worth.

[ilovegarlic]

Lol

[jojoindy]

Capitalism!

[Onlyliveonce]

I am hardly whining, life is very easy right now and I thank God.

You only highlighted the negatives of starting up a business, but failed to highlight the positives and there are plenty . At the end of the day are you making 2x 5x 10x 100x the minimum wage ? The public will never know the real numbers.


No regrets here either as in the end it was worth the sweat. I too lived lean eating PPJ for lunch, tuna fish for diner and read newspapers out of the trash for the first 5 years of my career. I started my career not for money, but rather to help people, yes help people. As a young kid starting out it was never about the money.

I don't need any perspective, as I am not reliant on a scumbag boss paying " slave wages ".

As a parent I would not consider leaving the world a better place as " having a dog in the fight "

As long as unemployment is high you will have a workforce desperate to work for near "slave wages", but once unemployment goes down to around 6% you better get your checkbook out, as wages will go up.

Why am I not out by the pool having a cold one ? and Why are you not putting in one of your 80 hour weeks ?

I really need to get a hobby or I will end up on this forum too much (LOL)

[topaz420]

[JohnnyIllini]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

I am hardly whining, life is very easy right now and I thank God.

You only highlighted the negatives of starting up a business, but failed to highlight the positives and there are plenty . At the end of the day are you making 2x 5x 10x 100x the minimum wage ? The public will never know the real numbers.


No regrets here either as in the end it was worth the sweat. I too lived lean eating PPJ for lunch, tuna fish for diner and read newspapers out of the trash for the first 5 years of my career. I started my career not for money, but rather to help people, yes help people. As a young kid starting out it was never about the money.

I don't need any perspective, as I am not reliant on a scumbag boss paying " slave wages ".

As a parent I would not consider leaving the world a better place as " having a dog in the fight "

As long as unemployment is high you will have a workforce desperate to work for near "slave wages", but once unemployment goes down to around 6% you better get your checkbook out, as wages will go up.

Why am I not out by the pool having a cold one ? and Why are you not putting in one of your 80 hour weeks ?

I really need to get a hobby or I will end up on this forum too much (LOL)

I couldn't agree more with your general premise in terms of wage disparity and the lack of decent paying jobs in Las Vegas. However, it's funny that you would be so rude to tell the poster above you that you "don't need or want his life story," when this post and practically every post that you've made is some diatribe about yourself (often at the expense of others). This includes unsolicited negative feedback about housing from a guy in his 20s looking for a poker house, mentioning that you're 42 with two children in threads where people are discussing how they can't afford to start a family, talking about how lucky you are to be retired in threads where the OPs are desperately seeking employment, etc, etc.

With all due respect, you might be a lot happier back on the various New York forums where you recently moved from, as everyone there loves to needlessly bash each other in unproductive threads similar to the feedback that you like to give everyone here.

[ilovegarlic]

I am saving the good popcorn for the finale.

*LOL*

[Onlyliveonce]

Originally Posted by JohnnyIllini

I couldn't agree more with your general premise in terms of wage disparity and the lack of decent paying jobs in Las Vegas. However, it's funny that you would be so rude to tell the poster above you that you "don't need or want his life story," when this post and practically every post that you've made is some diatribe about yourself (often at the expense of others). This includes unsolicited negative feedback about housing from a guy in his 20s looking for a poker house, mentioning that you're 42 with two children in threads where people are discussing how they can't afford to start a family, talking about how lucky you are to be retired in threads where the OPs are desperately seeking employment, etc, etc.

With all due respect, you might be a lot happier back on the various New York forums where you recently moved from, as everyone there loves to needlessly bash each other in unproductive threads similar to the feedback that you like to give everyone here.

The poster in this thread went into a lot of detail several paragraphs long, way too much info.
When I give any info about myself it is short and sweet such as my age, employment status and if I have kids. I do not give out much more info than that. I realize some might resent a person being retired at such a young age, but that is not my problem and I mean no disrespect.
Now the man in his 20's looking for a "poker house" I resented and would feel threatened if such a house were next to me at this stage in my life. I also went on to say if I were a young kid it would be cool, but now I have kids it is my worst nightmare. Again no disrespect, just fear of a house like that next to me. It is all about stages of life and timing.
As far as desperate people seeking employment, I feel for them and could just keep my mouth shut about wage issues here and in the real world. I refuse to keep my mouth shut about the wages here in town and hope to see wages go up. I am retired, why do I care if wages go up ? Answer is, I do not like to see people suffer, I have seen enough of that on a much worse level.
I moved out of NY to get away from NY don't want to be in that forum or that State ever again.
Hope you learned a little about me.