[lyra33]

Originally Posted by philmason

You think karma is what puts people there? 95% of them are scumbags in life, probably criminals.

Okay...so if they are scumbags and criminals let's logically deduct what will happen. Instead of peacefully begging on a corner they will come to your house and look for money there...because you know even criminals and beggers have to eat.

The sad truth is that most people are selfish and do not donate to charities.

[lyra33]

Originally Posted by logline

Samsite,

The theory WOULD become "real life"! Like I said in my last post, life is about incentives. Think of a world where everybody agreed via social contract, morality, manners, whatever you want to call it and all agreed to NEVER give a penny to a street beggar because it HURTS the homeless.

Right...and when every person stops giving to homeless people we will have a perfect society with everyone who works hard and digs themselves out....

*rolls eyes*

You live in a dream world. No matter what there will be a small percentage of people who will NEVER fit in, or will never live by the rules.

For the record I generally do not give money to people with a cardboard sign. When I see a homeless person I try and get them something to eat.

[logline]

lyra33, now who's being naive and living in a dream world? You think you are doing anything morally correct from other "money-givers" by simply giving food? Do you really believe you are preventing someone from continuing their drug/alcohol habit because YOU give them food? Think about it, whatever money that person gets from others goes to "the habit" and the food comes from you. Yay! They don't have to spend their drug money on food thanks to you! You are encouraging the begging, don't you get it? You make them more homeless!

You've completely missed my point about incentives. There is a... how shall we say... a STRONG incentive to eat. More so than drugs if enough time goes by. It's a matter of survival. If the ONLY food they can get comes from the trained, skilled members of a homeless shelter, then they get a whole lot more than just food to get back on their feet.

"You live in a dream world. No matter what there will be a small percentage of people who will NEVER fit in, or will never live by the rules."

I agree. We call them "criminals". If deprived beggars can't get with the program and won't get sober, then they will turn to crime, just like you suggested in your last post. In effect, they should be doing hard labor which gets them working for far less money (and freedom) than they would if they just got the counseling, drug rehab and job training in the first place. This of course requires a firmer definition of what we currently call "hard time." No more Club Fed.

If the person is genuinely mentally ill and won't respond to treatment, then we need to re-open/re-build the facilities that Ronald Reagan closed in the 80's and institutionalize them. Spare me the bleeding heart crap.

[MomMom]

There have ALWAYS been homeless "beggars" here in town, even way way back in the day, sad thing is that I've noticed a lot more of them since the economy tanked.

The people (usually men) who stand at some of the major intersections, I often wonder if they are homeless or not. Some are well dressed, clean shaven (even smoking cigarettes) and always carry a handmade sign asking for money (but never for food?)

I do remember once a long while ago, I was at the intersection of Decatur/Sahara and a man was walking up and down with a sign in the median asking for money....I had a small bag of McDonalds that I had just bought. I wanted to give it to him while I was stopped at the light, but he said, now this is verbatim..."NO, I'M NOT HUNGRY, I JUST WANT SOME MONEY"

Oh well, such is life I guess, lol

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by samsite

I've been to Korea before and I speak the language and You are absolutely right. There are zero beggars except for Itaewon and places near U.S. military bases. Once in a while I see the blind guy or the legless man on the train that is playing music and collecting money. But that is like 2 out of 20 million people in Seoul metro area.

Because of the culture, many people try to work even if it's hard labor that is paying less than what a beggar in the U.S. makes. Although people are less likley to give money to beggars, they are more than willing to give money to prostitues. Hence the large amount of illegal massage parlors, bars, and kareoke bars.

I also find that in Korea, people work very hard and all kinds of jobs. Key kiosks businesses for example, they will set them up, and rely on that income.

I think in the U.S., we are so into everything being corporate owned, that people think in terms of finding someone to give them a paycheck. As opposed to just opening up a key kiosk types of things all over Korea. Than again, we might have way too much red tape and restrictions that prevent people from doing something so simple as a key kiosk on the corner for income.

[samsite]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I also find that in Korea, people work very hard and all kinds of jobs. Key kiosks businesses for example, they will set them up, and rely on that income.

I think in the U.S., we are so into everything being corporate owned, that people think in terms of finding someone to give them a paycheck. As opposed to just opening up a key kiosk types of things all over Korea. Than again, we might have way too much red tape and restrictions that prevent people from doing something so simple as a key kiosk on the corner for income.

Yes, there is definately too much red tape to start small businesses in the U.S. This is both good and bad, depending on where you work. With our heavy focus on strict laws, countries like the U.S. and Japan are able to have huge powerhouse corporations to dominate global markets. Strict adherence to the rule of law provides the much needed stability to run large corporations. But for small local businesses, having a system that is less rigid would be better because it will prevent competing against Walmarts and Costco type corporations, and lower-middle class societies will be more willing to start a business rather than collect welfare and unemployment from the government. I think the U.S. needs to start loosening up restrictions in business laws, to allow small businesses to grow and create jobs. While rapidly growing countries like China need to start enforcing stricter business laws to build an economy that will be stable and less tumultuous over the long run.

[jasper12]

I once offered a man who had a "Will Work for Food" sign, a few cans of soup, I had some in my car...he was offended. He wanted cash...not food. And he definitely did not want to work.

[philmason]

Lyra, your logic there about feeding these beggers food or money to stop them from robbing your home is pretty silly. Listen to what you are saying.

You are right to some degree. If we "starved" (and I'm primarily referring to money here, thats all these jack asses are after) 1000 of these beggers on the streets, a few may resort to crime. Many would go other directions with their needs. Some would get jobs, and others would turn to family or friends. Remember, they are only there begging because its easy money. And stupid people that are putting dollars in these guys cups are feeding that disease.

What bothers me most about all of this is that most of the people that roll the window down to hand out money, have done no other charitable contributions. I have been involved with charitable giving more and more in the last 5 years, and the more I am involved with REAL charities, the more this begger stuff pisses me off.

[philmason]

Thanks for the Korea example. Cause and effect.

Americans are too stupid as a whole to learn from what another culture could teach us to improve our country though. Shame.

[PinkString]

Americans as a whole are not stupid! I assume you are not an American.