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I took a few college classes on the geography of Kentucky and it was always stated that the Jackson Purchase was the most Southern area. There are a variety a ways to measure this, one way it is more Southern than somewhere like Somerset is that is was very much part of the Dixiecrats' Solid South and was very supportive of the Confederacy. There are actually a handful of very Southern counties around Somerset that have been dominated by Republicans at the local level since the Civil War, when it was a die hard Union area. My mom is from that area and I had a cousin who ran for a county office as a Democrat and got obliterated because even back in 1990 it was GOP dominated. I've done a lot of genealogy and I'd say 90% of my ancestors in southern KY were Union even though it's otherwise culturally Southern.
So like I have saying all thread, Western Kentucky is the most culturally Southern area but the rest of the state while debatable is more Southern leaning.
Personally, a state that was not a part of the old Northwest territory, was part of Virginia, had significant Confederate support, had around 50% slave ownership in JeffCo, has a humid subtropical climate throughout all of the state, has a Southern dialect dominate over practically all but 3 counties, and has significant Southern culture in even its northernmost largest city (Louisville) cannot be called the Midwest.
Even Missouri isn't that Southern. Sorry Kentucky.
In the old days there was no locks and dams on the major rivers to block animals from moving up from the ocean. You could catch a Bull Shark in St Louis. There is a small population of wild alligators from pre dam days as far north as Memphis TN. Most range maps put the cutoff further south around Greenville MS.
Yep, Bull Sharks can get pretty far north. Down here in FL they get in the canals. I know gators were stocked in northern AL back in the 70s because they were endangered.
There are a few maps put out by AR that show gators habitat close to the bootheel of Missouri and pretty far north into Arkansas not too far from the Ozarks. If there is gators around Memphis that are naturally there, it wouldn't be out of the possibility for one to be seen in the bootheel especially in the summer since it's only 70 miles or so north of Memphis. A few people also claim to have seen gators in Reelfoot Lake which is right next to the Missouri Bootheel. If those are naturally there and not released by someone then it's safe to say gators naturally can make it up to Missouri. I can't see gators making it up past Cairo IL or Charleston MO. Even Cape Girardeau is pushing it as it gets colder there. However southeast Missouri in the winter has warmer night time lows and less freezes which could possibly allow a small population to survive. The far southern part of the Missouri Ozarks especially in southwest Missouri has warmer average high temps than the bootheel in the winter but at the same time they get colder nights with temps down to zero sometimes or below which is too cold. Bootheel never gets down to zero hardly.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
So like I have saying all thread, Western Kentucky is the most culturally Southern area but the rest of the state while debatable is more Southern leaning.
Personally, a state that was not a part of the old Northwest territory, was part of Virginia, had significant Confederate support, had around 50% slave ownership in JeffCo, has a humid subtropical climate throughout all of the state, has a Southern dialect dominate over practically all but 3 counties, and has significant Southern culture in even its northernmost largest city (Louisville) cannot be called the Midwest.
Even Missouri isn't that Southern. Sorry Kentucky.
My take is that Kentucky is Southern but with caveats that Alabama wouldn't have. It's in the same boat as Texas or Virginia, having areas that are marginally Southern and very Southern. The fact that nearly all Kentuckians hold Abraham Lincoln in high regard being one. I like that Kentuckians generally have Southern pride separate from the Confederate identity, similar to how Germans celebrate their culture while acknowledging the mistakes of the Nazi years.
I took a few college classes on the geography of Kentucky and it was always stated that the Jackson Purchase was the most Southern area. There are a variety a ways to measure this, one way it is more Southern than somewhere like Somerset is that is was very much part of the Dixiecrats' Solid South and was very supportive of the Confederacy. There are actually a handful of very Southern counties around Somerset that have been dominated by Republicans at the local level since the Civil War, when it was a die hard Union area. My mom is from that area and I had a cousin who ran for a county office as a Democrat and got obliterated because even back in 1990 it was GOP dominated. I've done a lot of genealogy and I'd say 90% of my ancestors in southern KY were Union even though it's otherwise culturally Southern.
I agree, western KY is the most southern part of KY culturally. The areas around it such as southeast Missouri, western TN are also the most southern parts of their states as well. Western TN is the most culturally southern part of TN as is southeast Missouri.
That is why to an extent KY wasn't dominated as a whole by Democrats and still elected some republicans to offices. Eastern Tennessee is also like that as well as the Arkansas Ozarks were and the Missouri Ozarks in parts as well. Still culturally upper south culture but were neutral to union leaning areas during the civil war. Eastern Tennessee was pro union in many areas, and the Ozarks of Arkansas and southern Missouri were neutral or union leaning depending on locations. Those areas vote republican while the rest of their states were democrat. Like in the 60s while most of Arkansas and Missouri would vote Democrat, the counties of the Arkansas and Missouri Ozarks would go Republican.
Some areas of the Ozarks were heavily democrat though especially pro confederate areas such as Butler, Oregon, and Ripley Counties in Missouri were very pro confederate Ozark counties and up until recent years very democrat on the local office level along with southeast Missouri.
Kentucky as well as Arkansas and West Virginia as a whole took longer at the state level to flip Republican though. Missouri was around 2000. These states voted moderate and conservative democrats into office based on the working class mentality. Union membership in states like WV, KY and MO strong too which is why democrats lasted so long in these states. KY House finally flipped this past election though.
Missouri will go right to work this year since only 82 votes in the house needed, Kentucky might go right to work as well depending on if they got enough Republicans in the house who will vote for a bill. They don't have a large majority like Missouri does so it is a bit tougher maybe to get a majority vote on it.
Kentucky in another 8 years will probably be in line with other nearby states like Missouri and Tennessee where Republicans totally dominate. In Missouri the democrat party is being decimated. Even Jefferson County which used to be working class democrat voters, the last 4 years Republicans have totally dominated democrats there in the elections. I suspect in Jefferson County the working class whites there have had enough of the democrats as well and they're so far to the left now. Same thing with Kentucky and Arkansas at the state level. The democrat party moving so far left the moderates have abandoned it.
One state the democrats seem to have luck in still at the state office level is Louisiana. They elected a democrat governor and their senate race was pretty tight. Their governor seems like the Chris Koster type though who isn't as far to the left and still fairly pro gun enough that they get enough votes.
I still think the veto Jay Nixon did of SB 656 hurt Chris Koster as well. I will say many state reps and senators were getting bombarded with emails and phone calls demanding that they pass permit less carry which is why the last day of the session they passed it. Even Stl and KC area republicans were getting bombarded from their residents demanding they pass the bill. I think Ryan Silvey of Kansas City said it was about a 3-1 margin he was getting from constitutes in favor of the bill.
Many Democrats blame One Term Bob Holden for losing the governors seat in 2004 for vetoing ccw and removing the Confederate flags from the state historic sites when a number of Democrats told him not to veto the bill but he didn't listen. A number of democrats overrode his veto.
My take is that Kentucky is Southern but with caveats that Alabama wouldn't have. It's in the same boat as Texas or Virginia, having areas that are marginally Southern and very Southern. The fact that nearly all Kentuckians hold Abraham Lincoln in high regard being one. I like that Kentuckians generally have Southern pride separate from the Confederate identity, similar to how Germans celebrate their culture while acknowledging the mistakes of the Nazi years.
Texas is such a huge state that it covers different regions that have different cultures such as far western Texas and far NW Texas Pan Handle that have great plains influence. Virginia has parts that are pretty far north and fill with migrants as well.
Then you have Missouri which takes the cake. With parts of the state great plains like, parts lower Midwest and part of the state is Ozarks upper southish and part of the state is like the Deep South with the Delta area counties.
If one's impression of Kentucky is that of Covington and Newport, one would come away thinking Kentucky is marginally Southern, seeing a stronger European influence that the Midwest is known for.
If their impression is anywhere near or in the Jackson Purchase, Kentucky is fully Southern.
Every other country is up for debate. However even with love for Lincoln, it is telling that it was Kentucky that had a lot to do with Lincoln being an abolitionist.
What I find strange is many Kentuckians are unaware of the slavery history in their own state. I think that has a lot to do with the identity crisis and also I find that at least in Louisville, there seems to be a prevailing thought that Southern culture somehow makes its way to a majority of the Midwest when honestly this isn't accurate. The southernmost points of Indiana and Ohio are still solidly in the cultural Midwest and is Illinois. Only Missouri cam be argued had received the most Southern influence. I think many people in Kentucky confuse rural living with Southern culture.
If one's impression of Kentucky is that of Covington and Newport, one would come away thinking Kentucky is marginally Southern, seeing a stronger European influence that the Midwest is known for.
If their impression is anywhere near or in the Jackson Purchase, Kentucky is fully Southern.
Every other country is up for debate. However even with love for Lincoln, it is telling that it was Kentucky that had a lot to do with Lincoln being an abolitionist.
What I find strange is many Kentuckians are unaware of the slavery history in their own state. I think that has a lot to do with the identity crisis and also I find that at least in Louisville, there seems to be a prevailing thought that Southern culture somehow makes its way to a majority of the Midwest when honestly this isn't accurate. The southernmost points of Indiana and Ohio are still solidly in the cultural Midwest and is Illinois. Only Missouri cam be argued had received the most Southern influence. I think many people in Kentucky confuse rural living with Southern culture.
I will disagree about southern IL I mean like south of Mt. Vernon is the start of the transition zone that has characteristics of both the Midwest and the south similar to how the northern part of the southern half of Missouri is near highway 50 and around places like Lebanon and Rolla, a transition zone. The only area of IL I would consider pretty much southern is around Cairo IL around the Ohio river. That area is southern. However this is a VERY small portion of the state and nowhere near the southern influences Missouri has. Missouri actually has a decent chunk of the state that is still southern, and another decent chunk that is a transition zone and overall the state has the most debatable southern influences. IL and IN are not even close as they don't really have a region that is located in the south. Cairo area far to small to be an entire region. Overall Missouri has much much more southern characteristics than IL and IN have historically and presently. MO was a slave state and was admitted by Confederate Congress, IN and IL didn't have a star on the Confederate flag, were not slave states as well. Even north of Highway 50 in Missouri in the Little Dixie areas you will find pockets that still have southern influences as well even though they lean Midwestern today.
I will disagree about southern IL I mean like south of Mt. Vernon is the start of the transition zone that has characteristics of both the Midwest and the south similar to how the northern part of the southern half of Missouri is near highway 50 and around places like Lebanon and Rolla, a transition zone. The only area of IL I would consider pretty much southern is around Cairo IL around the Ohio river. That area is southern. However this is a VERY small portion of the state and nowhere near the southern influences Missouri has. Missouri actually has a decent chunk of the state that is still southern, and another decent chunk that is a transition zone and overall the state has the most debatable southern influences. IL and IN are not even close as they don't really have a region that is located in the south. Cairo area far to small to be an entire region. Overall Missouri has much much more southern characteristics than IL and IN have historically and presently. MO was a slave state and was admitted by Confederate Congress, IN and IL didn't have a star on the Confederate flag, were not slave states as well. Even north of Highway 50 in Missouri in the Little Dixie areas you will find pockets that still have southern influences as well even though they lean Midwestern today.
Sorry I couldn't phrase it as accurately as you. I agree about Illinois but Mt. Vernon is pretty darn far South to be called a significant portion of the state. Same happens in Indiana south of Seymour. Interestingly Evansville is further south geographically than New Albany but New Albany is much more culturally Southern.
But I agree on Care-oh. It is Southern but definitely Upper South extremities. I think if we take Missouri out and don't include Oklahoma, Indiana probably is the most Southern influenced after this 2. So probably 3rd Southern influenced after MO, and OK.
Ohio is maybe marginally culturally Southern near Kentucky. While Cincinnati's population did have a Southern infusion, the infusion has largely been absorbed and not that many traces of their culture lingers. The German influence just overpowers it by a lot. Ohio is more accurately Appalachian along its river and then almost all Midwestern in Cincinnati. There are still some traces of the South there but the Midland traces are the defining factor of the Queen City. All can agree that the tri- state area is more Midwestern than anything, but is nothing short of scenic.
I will say that the Lower Midwestern regions are just so beautifully scenic. Shawnee National, the Knobs, the Ohio Bluegrass, the Ozarks, are all an awesome collection of beautiful greenery and a reminder that not all of the Midwestern is flat and boring.
Sorry I couldn't phrase it as accurately as you. I agree about Illinois but Mt. Vernon is pretty darn far South to be called a significant portion of the state. Same happens in Indiana south of Seymour. Interestingly Evansville is further south geographically than New Albany but New Albany is much more culturally Southern.
But I agree on Care-oh. It is Southern but definitely Upper South extremities. I think if we take Missouri out and don't include Oklahoma, Indiana probably is the most Southern influenced after this 2. So probably 3rd Southern influenced after MO, and OK.
Ohio is maybe marginally culturally Southern near Kentucky. While Cincinnati's population did have a Southern infusion, the infusion has largely been absorbed and not that many traces of their culture lingers. The German influence just overpowers it by a lot. Ohio is more accurately Appalachian along its river and then almost all Midwestern in Cincinnati. There are still some traces of the South there but the Midland traces are the defining factor of the Queen City. All can agree that the tri- state area is more Midwestern than anything, but is nothing short of scenic.
I will say that the Lower Midwestern regions are just so beautifully scenic. Shawnee National, the Knobs, the Ohio Bluegrass, the Ozarks, are all an awesome collection of beautiful greenery and a reminder that not all of the Midwestern is flat and boring.
Pretty much agree with all that. Oklahoma has a lot of great plains influences in it. Many on here call it southern and it has a lot of southern in it, but you see a lot of great plains influence in it.
Parts of the Ozarks are lower Midwest but parts are southern. Places like Farmington, lebanon and Rolla are at the edges of the lower Midwest and are in that transition zone. Branson, West Plains, Cabool are not lower Midwestern regions. Nothing Midwestern about Branson.
Pretty much agree with all that. Oklahoma has a lot of great plains influences in it. Many on here call it southern and it has a lot of southern in it, but you see a lot of great plains influence in it.
Parts of the Ozarks are lower Midwest but parts are southern. Places like Farmington, lebanon and Rolla are at the edges of the lower Midwest and are in that transition zone. Branson, West Plains, Cabool are not lower Midwestern regions. Nothing Midwestern about Branson.
I think Oklahoma is the most Midwestern Southern state. Missouri is the most Southern Midwest state. Kentucky is the most Southern state that isn't supposed to be Southern. Delaware is the least Southern state of the states that aren't supposed to be Southern. West Virginia is in the middle.
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