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Sadly, the St. Louis public school district is even worse than its counterpart in KC, but there are many great parochial neighborhood schools available for families.
St. Louis is about 10 years ahead of Kansas City (probably because of their earlier accredidation problems) in offering some good magnet and charter school options, particularly if your kids can test into the gifted schools. The single best public high school in the state of Missouri is the the St. Louis Public School District.
And for those kids who wouldn't do well in a gifted environment, there are some other options I would consider solid. My step sister, who graduated from high school back in the '90s, went to the performing arts high school and got a good enough education to get into several state schools of her choice. They focused on performing arts, but we're really hardcore about attendance and homework. For a kid who was never particularly academically minded, I thought this was a great option to keep her interested in going to school every day.
And yes, you're right, there are a ton of parochial schools. Even non-Catholics regularly send their kids to them.
And, bonus: Because St. Louis' city limits are tiny, there are some solid schools in the inner ring suburbs that can still afford urban-minded folks a place to live and send their kids to good schools.
Not sure what it is about STL but they don't seem to retain people who move there - 4%-5% metro growth is about the same as net birth/death rate. Both the city and core county are shrinking. Has great infrastructure and classic old city feel but many of those who move there don't tend to stay there. Very well could be 'city personality' but not many in STL would admit to that.
Bottom line... There are more STL people who move to KC than KC to STL. An STL study showed even STL city people are moving to KCMO city core. I'm from STL city and also left for KC. Great place to visit but a pretty tough place to live, especially for outsiders. STL seems to be improving though with more fresh blood than when I lived there. Lots of fresh blood from elsewhere is what STL really needs to get out of the provincial mode. For now, I'll take KC's state line issues over STL provincialism.
Not sure what it is about STL but they don't seem to retain people who move there - 4%-5% metro growth is about the same as net birth/death rate. Both the city and core county are shrinking. Has great infrastructure and classic old city feel but many of those who move there don't tend to stay there. Very well could be 'city personality' but not many in STL would admit to that.
Bottom line... There are more STL people who move to KC than KC to STL. An STL study showed even STL city people are moving to KCMO city core. I'm from STL city and also left for KC. Great place to visit but a pretty tough place to live, especially for outsiders. STL seems to be improving though with more fresh blood than when I lived there. Lots of fresh blood from elsewhere is what STL really needs to get out of the provincial mode. For now, I'll take KC's state line issues over STL provincialism.
I could not agree more with you, xenokc! Luv your posts! They are reasonable, highly informative, and positive. Thank you for all your contributions to this dsyfunctional forum.
*The entire region funds cultural amenities = great free attractions
*They have a Metrolink
*Soulard is a really cool historic neighborhood. Lots of fun for Mardi Gras. Great *Farmers' Market.
*Forest Park is one of the nicest urban parks I have ever been to. The entire area is awesome.
*Central West End is a bit overrated, but still really nice to hang out in.
*The entire community, from the suburbs to the urban core, seem to have a tremendous amount of civic pride in the city of St. Louis. I wish I could bottle that up and infuse KC with that. It irritiates me KC has such a negative attitude and inferiority complex about our city.
*They built a downtown baseball stadium. It has its flaws (kinda generic retro ballpark that has become all the rage without much character), but the skyline cannot be beat.
*Its Eastern-looking with Midwestern sensibilities.
*Its a city with a distinct personality that roots for its pro sports teams, unlike KC which I sometimes feel like is less a city than a collection of rural transplants, still cheering for their local college team. St. Louis seems more urban than KC, which leans suburban/rural at times.
Anyway, I chose to live in KC when I had the opportunity to move anywhere, so obviously I still prefer KC, but St. Louis has a lot going for it and would always be on my list of cities if I ever relocate.
It irritiates me KC has such a negative attitude and inferiority complex about our city.
I don't really see this. Most of the inferior complex/negativity I've experienced is from people on this site. The more active kcrag.com forum is much more positive towards KC and talks about ways to improve with constructive criticism, not dead end complaints. Yes, there are the state line issues but all metros have some issue unique to its area.
The thing about KC is that the metro is only 2M people yet has amenities of much larger metros. There are some who want it to be a major metro and suffer from greener pastures but KC simply isn't a large metro and I hope it doesn't become one, at least too quickly like Phoenix or Dallas. If I wanted the hassles of a large metro, I'd live in one. KC has many big city amenities w/out the big city hassles.
I can't think of a metro under 2.5M that has more city amenities than KC. The arts especially are unusually strong here for a metro this size - much much better than STL methinks. There are 3 major sports, potentially another coming, as well as the racetrack. I don't think there is any metro under 2.5m with more sports. Though I will agree KC leans fair weather fans compared to STL having more sports history.
In general, KC is stronger in most stats compared to metros its size +-/500K, whereas STL is a bit weaker than other metros compared to its size +-500K. It especially shows in income, gross metro product, etc.
The bottom line though is that people who move to KC tend to stay here. People who move to STL tend to not stay for more than 5 years or so.
I don't really see this. Most of the inferior complex/negativity I've experienced is from people on this site. The more active kcrag.com forum is much more positive towards KC and talks about ways to improve with constructive criticism, not dead end complaints. Yes, there are the state line issues but all metros have some issue unique to its area.
Well sure, that's a site for downtown boosters. I guess I'm talking about people I interact with all the time, local media, KC Star comments, Hearne Christopher's blog, Tony's KC, 980 KMBZ - the prevailing attitude seems to be "we can't do anything right, our schools suck, our sports teams suck, our downtown sucks, crime is rampant, we waste taxpayer money, our mayor is a joke, Independence is meth-ville, Kansas is a backwards state, JoCo is snobby, everything is awful." A lot of people seem to automatically think every project will fail. Even projects that are succeeding. I've had people tell me Union Station is dead and bankrupt - it is turning a profit and is drawing bigger crowds than ever. I had one tell me the Liberty Memorial was a joke and no one goes there - the WWI Museum has been very popular. People laughed at the Bloch Building at the Nelson - yet nationally it receives rave reviews. Just wish people here would be downright arrogant about their city like St. Louis.
I've had people tell me Union Station is dead and bankrupt - it is turning a profit and is drawing bigger crowds than ever. I had one tell me the Liberty Memorial was a joke and no one goes there - the WWI Museum has been very popular. People laughed at the Bloch Building at the Nelson - yet nationally it receives rave reviews. Just wish people here would be downright arrogant about their city like St. Louis.
I've experienced similar situations but i'm sure they just say this because they are the sheep who are watching the nightly news and see the daily shootings happen on the East Side without really knowing the real situation, they just assume everything in KC sucks and they will be mugged or shot if they try to go there. One guy at my work says if he has to go to into KC he always brings a gun, this is a guy from Buckner we are talking about.
Back in August, i was reading a STL Post Dispatch article about downtown revival and you should have seen all the negative comments below the article.
Last edited by brewcrew1000; 10-19-2011 at 10:27 AM..
^This is true. It's a proven fact that reading the P-D comments lowers your IQ by 20% :P
It's stunning the ignorance displayed, but if you do read them often (again, I really don't suggest it!) you'll find that there is actually a circle of regulars who are nothing more than crazy trolls -- there's about 5-10 of them who post their crazy. And they just get others riled up.
I think Pete has the right idea however. What I see in St. Louis that seems to lack here is that sense of includedness.
Even the most conservative die hard St. Charles county folks I knew growing up still seemed to have an understanding that they were part of a metro area and that that was important. I have been shocked on the number of occasions where I've heard displayed the opinion that JoCo in no way needs KC. They want to pretend it doesn't exist -- some of them seem to believe that someday it won't.
They don't like to spend money and they don't want the "problems" of the city/north county to "migrate" out to them, but sububanites in St. Louis still consider themselves St. Louisans.
Maybe it's exactly because of the "parochial" nature others on here have bemoaned. Many suburbanites grew up in the county, have family there, have fond memories from there and so, even though they now might (usually inaccurately) think of it as a war-torn ghetto destroyed by the black trash, they still seem to think of it as their own.
Well sure, that's a site for downtown boosters. I guess I'm talking about people I interact with all the time, local media, KC Star comments, Hearne Christopher's blog, Tony's KC, 980 KMBZ - the prevailing attitude seems to be "we can't do anything right, our schools suck, our sports teams suck, our downtown sucks, crime is rampant, we waste taxpayer money, our mayor is a joke, Independence is meth-ville, Kansas is a backwards state, JoCo is snobby, everything is awful." A lot of people seem to automatically think every project will fail. Even projects that are succeeding. I've had people tell me Union Station is dead and bankrupt - it is turning a profit and is drawing bigger crowds than ever. I had one tell me the Liberty Memorial was a joke and no one goes there - the WWI Museum has been very popular. People laughed at the Bloch Building at the Nelson - yet nationally it receives rave reviews. Just wish people here would be downright arrogant about their city like St. Louis.
yep. You get the same anti people in StL though, but it’s different. The difference is that as a group or to outsiders, people there at the very least put on a show of being loyal to StL. It may be fake and they may be just as clueless about the city as people in KC are, but I'll take it. . Most people I know that live as far away as Troy or Washington are more “STL” than people in Waldo of KC are. Can you imagine most people in Grain Valley or Gardner sticking up of KCMO??? I can’t imagine most people in Lenexa let alone Gardner.
There is a level of pride in StL that KC is severely lacking.
The difference is that as a group or to outsiders, people there at the very least put on a show of being loyal to StL. It may be fake and they may be just as clueless about the city as people in KC are, but I'll take it. . There is a level of pride in StL that KC is severely lacking.
I totally agree with this, and I don't think it's fake. St. Louisans do have a strong sense of allegiance to their city, are very passionate about their hometown, and are very biased. The sun, the moon, and the stars rise and shine on St. Louis. Not my style, (I've traveled too much and lived in other cities to buy in to it,) but, as an outsider, I must concede to a grudging admiration. Yes, I would like to see more KC pride.
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. Most people I know that live as far away as Troy or Washington are more “STL” than people in Waldo of KC are. Can you imagine most people in Grain Valley or Gardner sticking up of KCMO??? I can’t imagine most people in Lenexa let alone Gardner.
