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What part of variable compensation do you not understand? If the business fails, you bear no personal responsibility. You don't give up 20 years of working 80 hour weeks. Unbelievable. The minute you as the employee take an ounce of risk for the company if the company were to fail, we can have a serious discussion.
That is entirely incorrect. When the executives take large bonuses while the stock price tanked, that is not bearing personal responsibility. That is looking out for number 1. Every employee takes on an ounce of risk. You don't consider the risk of losing their job a risk? That's why I run my business. It protects me from the risk of losing my job because someone higher up than me made a bad decision. That person would still collect their pay, but my job would disappear. That is a very dangerous position. It is far more risky than having a golden parachute to protect you if you are fired for poor performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
So you want me to have sympathy for someone who was so lazy he/she did not have a backup plan? Are you serious? Are you honestly telling me that you haven't actively planned for what you would do in case you were laid off? Pushing responsibility for your own life onto someone else is hardy a sound argument. Why don't you jump off of the internet and start job hunting right now (like those of us who take responsibility for our own lives do) so you have something lined up in case SHTF.
Why would I job hunt? I own and run my own business. Having a job where someone else could fire me would mean relying on someone else to care if I have a job. They don't, it isn't their responsibility. I never said that it was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
First of all, I am not in HR, but I am in charge of hiring for my group. Second of all, give me your address and I will mail you a cookie as a reward. Good lord, are you always this whiny?
You handle hiring, you are involved in HR. Like it or not, human resources by definition is largely dependent on hiring. It may not be your entire job, it may not even be the majority of it, but it is part of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
When I (and my corporate co-workers) put in 70-90 hours per week so that this economy can keep going as much as it is (you are welcome for the last 30 years of prosperity, by the way), we don't have the time or patience to waste valuable resources on some self entitled brat who might whine the second he has to work unpaid overtime, just to give on example. The problem is people like you have absolutely no clue how an economy actually works, and have absolutely no clue how miserable your life would be without people like me. You are more than happy reaping the benefits of people like me, but the second anything happens that you don't like, you are the first to start whining. How sad.
Really? Did you actually write that? I have no clue about economics? Your knowledge of it has been so lackluster it is completely astounding. Do you even know who Milton Friedman is? Did you read his book, free to choose?
Can you even tell me who wrote "The wealth of nations"?
No one is reaping the benefits of this economy, most of all those of us who graduated at the wrong time and had to build our business during this recession. You call me a whiner, but I'm out busting my ass and providing for my family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I don't trust my company farther than I can throw it. I get a better than average salary for my position, and I know I add value to my company. Beyond that, they don't owe my a damn thing. My company has the sole responsibility of bringing more value to shareholders, and as long as I can contribute to that goal, I am valuable to my company and will be compensated accordingly.
That is the duty of the company. However the board of directors is often chaired by the CEO, which is a huge conflict of interests since the board decides how much of the share holders money will be given to the CEO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I am not entitled to anything. I work hard, I stay late, and I am smart enough to work on projects that add value to shareholders. If my company stopped compensating me fairly, I wouldn't whine like you do, I would thank them for the time and opportunities they have given me and find another job. I am always looking for a different job, and I always have a backup plan. I am not entitled to a damn thing, and I will be the last to complain about anything (except people like you who seem to like whining more than actually contributing).
You are complaining about the idea of other people complaining. So you working long hours is contributing, but my running my business is not contributing? You've said that the head of the business bears the most risk and the most responsibility. That is a position I have attained, and you have not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
You want to work for just a paycheck? Fine. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I have no use for you on my team. The fact that you don't understand that tells me a lot about how self-centered and uncaring you must really be. If someone doesn't like working for me, there is the door. They can quit at any time. I have changed jobs multiple times because I didn't like my boss. You want to be paid well and add something of value to the shareholder? Come work for me. I want someone to work for me who actually has some passion about what they do, and who I know isn't just some scumbag out to make a quick buck. That obviously isn't you. The working world is a game, and you obviously are clueless about how to play. Good luck, I imagine you are in for a long and frustrating life.
Why do you continue to believe I am looking for a job. This is why I've said you remain ignorant of the posts you have read. This attitude in management thoroughly decreases the satisfaction of employees. It's not MY job to make sure your air smells good, but I don't fart in the elevator. That is what you are doing. You've identified that their happiness isn't your responsibility, so you are free to ruin it. That is not the case. Your entitlement to not care ends where their right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" begins. Most of us have changed jobs because of a bad boss. That hurts the company. That boss cost them a trained employee. That boss may or may not be held accountable for the impact he is having on the share holders.
I think you summed it all up. To you, the working world is a game. I'm clueless about how to play. I don't see value in building a system based on nepotism. I need enough to take care of my family, and I make that. You don't care about whose game, or life, you ruin along the way. You have become so embittered that now, when your career is strong, you've chosen to be a bully. You have the power to help people, often at very little cost to yourself. With power, comes responsibility. When you don't stop a beating next door, you bear the responsibility. When you don't stop a girl from getting drugged at a bar you bear the responsibility. You may never own up to it, you may not even be bothered by it, but you allowed it to happen. It was less than 70 years ago that millions of innocents were slaughtered because their country men stood around and did nothing.
You can ignore that responsibility, but I will not. To you, I am whiner. To you, I am just another name. To you, I don't know how to play the game. To me, you are a coward.
LOL! Yes, here's another vote for Lurtsman. Hnsq's post is so full of right wing ignorance, elitism, and corporate douchebaggery.
I think you might find this interesting.
I'm actually a libertarian. Which is to say fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That's not a contradiction, I believe in maximizing individual liberty.
I don't support Welfare because I believe it damages the incentive system and reduces the desire to work in recipients and the incentives to continue working for the productive members of society.
I do believe our current institutional system is broken because the path out of poverty is through jobs that no longer exist. There is plenty of blame to go around.
I left the republican party because I could not condone the wide spread view that the church had the right to enforce theocracy on the masses. No disrespect to the Republicans, how can I argue with them that they should do God's work? It is an absurd premise to start an intellectual conversation. No disrespect to the democrats. I understand their position well, how can I get them to listen when I say that welfare is hurting the people who receive it? I've met many great people from each party, I can't just stamp a one party ticket though, which makes researching the issues take significantly more time.
That is entirely incorrect. When the executives take large bonuses while the stock price tanked, that is not bearing personal responsibility. That is looking out for number 1. Every employee takes on an ounce of risk. You don't consider the risk of losing their job a risk? That's why I run my business. It protects me from the risk of losing my job because someone higher up than me made a bad decision. That person would still collect their pay, but my job would disappear. That is a very dangerous position. It is far more risky than having a golden parachute to protect you if you are fired for poor performance.
Why would I job hunt? I own and run my own business. Having a job where someone else could fire me would mean relying on someone else to care if I have a job. They don't, it isn't their responsibility. I never said that it was.
You handle hiring, you are involved in HR. Like it or not, human resources by definition is largely dependent on hiring. It may not be your entire job, it may not even be the majority of it, but it is part of it.
Really? Did you actually write that? I have no clue about economics? Your knowledge of it has been so lackluster it is completely astounding. Do you even know who Milton Friedman is? Did you read his book, free to choose?
Can you even tell me who wrote "The wealth of nations"?
No one is reaping the benefits of this economy, most of all those of us who graduated at the wrong time and had to build our business during this recession. You call me a whiner, but I'm out busting my ass and providing for my family.
That is the duty of the company. However the board of directors is often chaired by the CEO, which is a huge conflict of interests since the board decides how much of the share holders money will be given to the CEO.
You are complaining about the idea of other people complaining. So you working long hours is contributing, but my running my business is not contributing? You've said that the head of the business bears the most risk and the most responsibility. That is a position I have attained, and you have not.
Why do you continue to believe I am looking for a job. This is why I've said you remain ignorant of the posts you have read. This attitude in management thoroughly decreases the satisfaction of employees. It's not MY job to make sure your air smells good, but I don't fart in the elevator. That is what you are doing. You've identified that their happiness isn't your responsibility, so you are free to ruin it. That is not the case. Your entitlement to not care ends where their right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" begins. Most of us have changed jobs because of a bad boss. That hurts the company. That boss cost them a trained employee. That boss may or may not be held accountable for the impact he is having on the share holders.
I think you summed it all up. To you, the working world is a game. I'm clueless about how to play. I don't see value in building a system based on nepotism. I need enough to take care of my family, and I make that. You don't care about whose game, or life, you ruin along the way. You have become so embittered that now, when your career is strong, you've chosen to be a bully. You have the power to help people, often at very little cost to yourself. With power, comes responsibility. When you don't stop a beating next door, you bear the responsibility. When you don't stop a girl from getting drugged at a bar you bear the responsibility. You may never own up to it, you may not even be bothered by it, but you allowed it to happen. It was less than 70 years ago that millions of innocents were slaughtered because their country men stood around and did nothing.
You can ignore that responsibility, but I will not. To you, I am whiner. To you, I am just another name. To you, I don't know how to play the game. To me, you are a coward.
Please, stop, you are making too much sense and my head can't take it anymore!
Bingo! But its hard to even get an interview when NO ONE is even looking at resumes.
I think I'm going to start a trend.
Have you ever seen a craigslist ad where at the bottom it has a keyword section for all the other items that would competitive against yours? (ie. i'm selling a ford mustang and in the keywords i'll put chevy camaro, dodge charger etc.)
at the bottom of my resume i'm going to have a keyword section with all the words these computer resume scanners are looking for so it can actually get looked at by a human!
It's a good idea Skinnayyy, you can even title the section so HR employee understands why it is there. If they don't, they shouldn't be working in the field, but it's best to prepare for all contingencies.
What part of variable compensation do you not understand? If the business fails, you bear no personal responsibility. You don't give up 20 years of working 80 hour weeks. Unbelievable. The minute you as the employee take an ounce of risk for the company if the company were to fail, we can have a serious discussion.
So you want me to have sympathy for someone who was so lazy he/she did not have a backup plan? Are you serious? Are you honestly telling me that you haven't actively planned for what you would do in case you were laid off? Pushing responsibility for your own life onto someone else is hardy a sound argument. Why don't you jump off of the internet and start job hunting right now (like those of us who take responsibility for our own lives do) so you have something lined up in case SHTF.
First of all, I am not in HR, but I am in charge of hiring for my group. Second of all, give me your address and I will mail you a cookie as a reward. Good lord, are you always this whiny?
When I (and my corporate co-workers) put in 70-90 hours per week so that this economy can keep going as much as it is (you are welcome for the last 30 years of prosperity, by the way), we don't have the time or patience to waste valuable resources on some self entitled brat who might whine the second he has to work unpaid overtime, just to give on example. The problem is people like you have absolutely no clue how an economy actually works, and have absolutely no clue how miserable your life would be without people like me. You are more than happy reaping the benefits of people like me, but the second anything happens that you don't like, you are the first to start whining. How sad.
I don't trust my company farther than I can throw it. I get a better than average salary for my position, and I know I add value to my company. Beyond that, they don't owe my a damn thing. My company has the sole responsibility of bringing more value to shareholders, and as long as I can contribute to that goal, I am valuable to my company and will be compensated accordingly.
I am not entitled to anything. I work hard, I stay late, and I am smart enough to work on projects that add value to shareholders. If my company stopped compensating me fairly, I wouldn't whine like you do, I would thank them for the time and opportunities they have given me and find another job. I am always looking for a different job, and I always have a backup plan. I am not entitled to a damn thing, and I will be the last to complain about anything (except people like you who seem to like whining more than actually contributing).
You want to work for just a paycheck? Fine. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I have no use for you on my team. The fact that you don't understand that tells me a lot about how self-centered and uncaring you must really be. If someone doesn't like working for me, there is the door. They can quit at any time. I have changed jobs multiple times because I didn't like my boss. You want to be paid well and add something of value to the shareholder? Come work for me. I want someone to work for me who actually has some passion about what they do, and who I know isn't just some scumbag out to make a quick buck. That obviously isn't you. The working world is a game, and you obviously are clueless about how to play. Good luck, I imagine you are in for a long and frustrating life.
But with all this working, you always manage to find time to post this nonsense on this message board. Shouldn't you be saving the corporate world by now?
That is entirely incorrect. When the executives take large bonuses while the stock price tanked, that is not bearing personal responsibility. That is looking out for number 1. Every employee takes on an ounce of risk. You don't consider the risk of losing their job a risk? That's why I run my business. It protects me from the risk of losing my job because someone higher up than me made a bad decision. That person would still collect their pay, but my job would disappear. That is a very dangerous position. It is far more risky than having a golden parachute to protect you if you are fired for poor performance.
You don't seem to understand opportunity cost. Execs take a massive cut when they are fired due to the lost cost of revenue that could have been gained through other means. It is much easier for the average employee to find similar employment than for an executive to do so. Execs bear a much greater risk than the average employee.
Quote:
Why would I job hunt? I own and run my own business. Having a job where someone else could fire me would mean relying on someone else to care if I have a job. They don't, it isn't their responsibility. I never said that it was.
So you don't plan for in case something goes wrong? Got it.
Quote:
You handle hiring, you are involved in HR. Like it or not, human resources by definition is largely dependent on hiring. It may not be your entire job, it may not even be the majority of it, but it is part of it.
I do not work in human resources. I manage people and am only involved in the extent to which any manager is involved in HR. That is not my dat to day job. That being said, obviously any manager deals with personnel issues.
Quote:
Really? Did you actually write that? I have no clue about economics? Your knowledge of it has been so lackluster it is completely astounding. Do you even know who Milton Friedman is? Did you read his book, free to choose?
Can you even tell me who wrote "The wealth of nations"?
No one is reaping the benefits of this economy, most of all those of us who graduated at the wrong time and had to build our business during this recession. You call me a whiner, but I'm out busting my ass and providing for my family.
"No one is reaping the benefits of this economy"? Seriously? Personally, I made an average of 37% gains on personal investments on a yearly basis since 2008. Reading the trends and realizing that things are not operating the same as they were 20 years ago is important (believe it or not). You might be 'busting your ass to provide for your family', but I am helping to grow a company that employs over 50,000 employees. So who is really helping more? Again, you are so damn selfish that all you think about is yourself and your family. You should be ashamed.
Quote:
That is the duty of the company. However the board of directors is often chaired by the CEO, which is a huge conflict of interests since the board decides how much of the share holders money will be given to the CEO.
mmkay, and CEOs (or the board) are not allowed to invest in their own company. Also, a controlling interest of board members must be outside parties.
Quote:
You are complaining about the idea of other people complaining. So you working long hours is contributing, but my running my business is not contributing? You've said that the head of the business bears the most risk and the most responsibility. That is a position I have attained, and you have not.
You are contributing, but only to yourself and your family, whereas people like me help grow enterprises that employ tens of thousands of people. There is a big difference.
Quote:
Why do you continue to believe I am looking for a job. This is why I've said you remain ignorant of the posts you have read. This attitude in management thoroughly decreases the satisfaction of employees. It's not MY job to make sure your air smells good, but I don't fart in the elevator. That is what you are doing. You've identified that their happiness isn't your responsibility, so you are free to ruin it. That is not the case. Your entitlement to not care ends where their right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" begins. Most of us have changed jobs because of a bad boss. That hurts the company. That boss cost them a trained employee. That boss may or may not be held accountable for the impact he is having on the share holders.
I contend that you continue to plan in case things go wrong in your life. You owe it to your family to have a backup plan, don't you? I assume everyone is always looking for a job, as everyone should always have a contingency in case things go wrong. Is that seriously unreasonable? And no, in a publicly traded company, the happiness of employees is not a primary responsibility. Private companies are obviously different, but in a public firm, if you don't like it, then too bad.
Quote:
I think you summed it all up. To you, the working world is a game. I'm clueless about how to play. I don't see value in building a system based on nepotism. I need enough to take care of my family, and I make that. You don't care about whose game, or life, you ruin along the way. You have become so embittered that now, when your career is strong, you've chosen to be a bully. You have the power to help people, often at very little cost to yourself. With power, comes responsibility. When you don't stop a beating next door, you bear the responsibility. When you don't stop a girl from getting drugged at a bar you bear the responsibility. You may never own up to it, you may not even be bothered by it, but you allowed it to happen. It was less than 70 years ago that millions of innocents were slaughtered because their country men stood around and did nothing.
You can ignore that responsibility, but I will not. To you, I am whiner. To you, I am just another name. To you, I don't know how to play the game. To me, you are a coward.
Socially? I have a great responsibility to my community. I volunteer, I give to charity, I help people. I do that PERSONALLY. The company has a sole responsibility of profit to increase the value to shareholders. It seems like you can't understand the line between a personal responsibility and a professional one.
And the fact that you would talk about people being slaughtered in a discussion that started with human resources tells me that you might have a screw or two loose.
So go ahead, call me what you want. Just wake up and realize that a company doesn't exist to wipe your a** for you.
You are contributing, but only to yourself and your family, whereas people like me help grow enterprises that employ tens of thousands of people. There is a big difference.
Wait, is this Mark Zuckerberg? Or is it a mid-20 something analyst working on the 10th floor of a multi-billion dollar conglomerate? This post reeks of god-complex.
The CEO did not make those products. He simply walked into the engineering director's office and said "make me a new product that will make me money."
You obviously have no real clue of what a CEO's job entails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman
Further, it is obligation, it is business responsibility, it is not personal responsibility. If the CEO fails, no one comes to his house and forces him to repay the company, or the employees, whose lives have been devastated. He can take his golden parachute to the tropics to live in wealth for the rest of his life. Meanwhile the employee who worked there for 20 years and may have most of her pension in stock at that company is risking a financial meltdown, having to ask relatives to house her, and a complete dependence. The CEO won't be there. He won't bring her meals.
And when a CEO helps a company become more successful, the company grows, the companies stock price goes up, more people are hired, employees get raises and / or bonuses. You seem to be ignoring all of those companies that are doing well.
And you are right, that CEO may get his golden parachute regardless. The more "business responsibility" one is entrusted with, the higher the pay. That's typical at almost any level, not just at the very top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3
I stand in the corner of the guy who actually owns his own business and runs it to support his family.
And if his business declines and he decides to fire a few employees rather than have the amount of money available from the business to continue to support his family go down...does that make him a bad person?
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Shouldn't you be saving the corporate world by now?
