Arizona's Immigration Law for Houston (Tyler: elementary school, college, camping)

[NCyank]

Originally Posted by glorplaxy

What would you think if Arizona's new and controversial immigration law was applied to the Houston area?

For those who don't know, the law basically states that police will have the right to question any one who they suspect is in the country illegally. The law also requires that immigrants carry special identification with them to verify their immigration status if needed. If the person does not have the proper ID, he can be detained until the true immigration status can be confirmed.

I'm not saying I support the law or am against it, but anyone who has spent enough time in Houston knows just how many illegal immigrants there are here. The Home Depot on Bellaire must have about 100 day laborers in the parkling lot on any given day and there are many more dispersed all throughout the area. In my area, I can think of at least two spots where they congregate in large numbers less than 3 miles away.

So do you think it would be good or bad for Houston? Discuss

Your understanding of the law is incorrect. They are not allowed to question someone just because they suspect they are here illegally. IF they have a legal reason to stop and question a person they ask for ID. IF the person does not have ID AND the officer has reason to suspect they are here illegally they will try to determine your status.

If you commit a traffic violation, if you are caught shoplifting, if you get into a fight in the parking lot, if you are doing something you aren't supposed to be doing or somewhere you aren't supposed to be, you may be questioned but that is the case now. The only difference is that if they have reason to suspect (based on questioning, no legal ID, etc.) that you are here illegally they will determine your status and not just let you go on your way. Being here illegally will be enough to detain you and get you turned over to the feds.

The law does not provide any measure to allow an officer to stop and question someone based on the suspicion that they are here illegally.

[kreeyax]

Yeah I seriously doubt local law enforcement departments have the time or resources to start walking up to random people and ask for their documents anyways. It's only going to come up if they have reason to stop someone or if they have committed a crime. I think people are really blowing this out of proportion. Besides... it's against the law to be here illegally, no matter what country you came from. Why do people think it should be OK to break the law?

[rugby]

Whites are already a minority in S. California, and it is projected that 2020 a minority in the whole of CA.

We lived in Oceanside CA. during the years 1982 to 2007 we saw the city change from a white, mostly military retiree town, to a predominately Mexican speaking community, with 3-4 families crowded into small rentals, clunker cars parked in the driveways and streets. The only ones who spoke English were the children who were born here!

You will find groups of Mexicans hanging out on the street corners hoping to be offered jobs. Mexicans camping out in the underpasses, or on your property, Migrant camps spring up everywhere breeding their own corruption! The adjacent cities of Vista and Escondido are even worse.

Oceanside has twenty nine registered gangs, and the city has their own full time, gang, police detail

Yes there are illegals with money, who buy in upscale neighborhoods and set up their meth labs. There aee also the gate, border patrol agents who are bribed to pass certain cars through the checkpoints!

There are pregnant mexicans who came over for a 'visit' and went into labor delivering their baby in a US hospital (expenses paid by the taxpayer) and immediately qualified for state support and welfare services.

The elementary schools provided dual language classes, which was eventually abandoned by the city of Oceanside AFTER FIFTEEN YEARS, when studies showed that there was no improvement in English language skills. Why, you may ask? Well illegals stay in their own little communities, there is no incentive for them to learn the language of the country they so desperately want to live in.

Many do not try to assimilate!

Even our government caters to them, everything is now printed in Spanish and bilingual is preferred for many jobs!

An example:The Mexican woman up the street from us, lived in a section 8 house, along with her four children, for which she received WIC and welfare payments/food stamps. The city paid tuition for her to attend the local community college in order to better herself. Her boyfriend moved in with her, he was the babysitter (at the taxpayers expense). Six months later she gave birth to her fifth child! (Taxpayers to the rescue again).

The rights and benefits earned and paid for by Americans, native born and naturalized are a huge magnet to the citizens of Mexico and other countries that have corrupt governments, wars, poverty etc.

We are all for compassion (and perhaps for Democrats, more voters) but we need to face the fact that our borders are deluged with illegals that we the taxpayer cannot support in the manner that we have.

Our politicians have put forward various plans they would like to make law,to help them gain legal status. Which would require illegals to return to their own countries and apply like every other, law abiding immigrant has and does!

When you defend/encourage illegal immigration you are giving away another American's entitlements.

[SteveArmy]

man, lots of mexican drivers driving very slowly this weekend!

[wpmeads]

Originally Posted by matthou

The illegals just being here puts more burden on the force, on hospitals, on social services, etc. Since the immigration department isn't doing their job, that is why we are faced with this situation.

Where specifically does the law give permission for the police to racial profile? Your comment sounds as if you haven't read the proposal.


Again it is clear you have not read the proposal. The proposal clearly states that there must be probable cause in order to stop someone, just as current laws have been upheld in the courts.

The proposal is hypothetical. Yes I know there is nothing in the Arizona says you can arrest people based on race, in fact, I believe the law specifically sates that you can not arrest people based on racial factors, but it doesn't really describe define "probable cause" which leaves the burden of determining this on the police force. It's just asking for a massive law suit for racial profiling. And I seriously doubt our police force has the time, money, or resources to do the immigration departments job for them. Besides, if you want to go after illegal immigrant, go after the buisness that are hiring illegals. Your not going to have as many people sneaking into this country if they can't get a job. That's much safer and more effective way of going about doing things.

[kcatheart]

I just saw a report that 30% of the prison system is populated with illegal immigrants costing taxpayers $3.3 million a day to house them. WTF is wrong with that picture?!?!?!

[NCyank]

Originally Posted by wpmeads

The proposal is hypothetical. Yes I know there is nothing in the Arizona says you can arrest people based on race, in fact, I believe the law specifically sates that you can not arrest people based on racial factors, but it doesn't really describe define "probable cause" which leaves the burden of determining this on the police force. It's just asking for a massive law suit for racial profiling. And I seriously doubt our police force has the time, money, or resources to do the immigration departments job for them. Besides, if you want to go after illegal immigrant, go after the buisness that are hiring illegals. Your not going to have as many people sneaking into this country if they can't get a job. That's much safer and more effective way of going about doing things.

Probable cause is legally different than reasonable suspicion. It is the latter that police use in traffic stops and similar sorts of questioning. Determining reasonable suspicion is always somewhat subjective, impossible to specifically define and always left to the discretion of the officer with the guidance of previous court rulings, department policies, etc.

The law is clear, the officer must have a LAWFUL REASON (you ran a stop sign, you got caught shoplifting, you got in a brawl at a taco stand, you don't have a license plate on your car, you are near the scene of an armed robbery and fit the description of the robber, your car is swerving as you drive, etc.), race is not a lawful reason to initiate contact or question anyone.

[SteveArmy]

loitering should be enough lawful reason.

[matthou]

Originally Posted by wpmeads

The proposal is hypothetical. Yes I know there is nothing in the Arizona says you can arrest people based on race, in fact, I believe the law specifically sates that you can not arrest people based on racial factors, but it doesn't really describe define "probable cause" which leaves the burden of determining this on the police force.

Probable cause is already defined by the courts and is in effect now. No one is trying to reinvent the wheel.

Originally Posted by wpmeads

And I seriously doubt our police force has the time, money, or resources to do the immigration departments job for them. Besides, if you want to go after illegal immigrant, go after the buisness that are hiring illegals. Your not going to have as many people sneaking into this country if they can't get a job. That's much safer and more effective way of going about doing things.

The police force time would be freed up if the government would enforce its laws. This includes going after businesses hiring illegals.

[Chanteuse d' Opéra]

No, no, and no. Why is this even a question???