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So Starbucks has publically announced that it is a "Gun Free Zone". We've had problems in the past with gun free zones.
I guess that if Starbucks can guarentee my safety and the safety of my family, they can choose to do what they want, however, being a "Public" business, they should have to adhere to the laws of the state and local authorities.
Wonder how this is working in Texas. While I was down there doing a project, they were trying to pass a law saying that public business could not dictate if you carry or not, they must adhere to State Laws. I thought the law passed, but maybe it didn't.
If starbucks does not post a sign at the front so it can be read eye level at the door then they can not tell me not to carry on their property. It can not just be a suggestion
I have a CCW and carry a Kimber 1911 .45 caliber conceal version. Depending on what I'm doing and where I'm at I have a couple of different holsters I wear that hide the firearm very well but give me easy access to it if needed.
If I wore a gun as an open carry it would advertise the fact that I have a gun which I don't necessarily want people to know I have.
First off I don't wish to frighten anyone and secondly I want the element of surprise if an incident should occur.
In this day and age in America being well armed while blending into the crowd no matter where you find yourself is just smart thinking.
Carry a BIG stick but hide the stick and it's ability to blow an exit hole the size of a dinner plate in a bad guy.
So Starbucks has publically announced that it is a "Gun Free Zone". We've had problems in the past with gun free zones.
I guess that if Starbucks can guarentee my safety and the safety of my family, they can choose to do what they want, however, being a "Public" business, they should have to adhere to the laws of the state and local authorities.
Wonder how this is working in Texas. While I was down there doing a project, they were trying to pass a law saying that public business could not dictate if you carry or not, they must adhere to State Laws. I thought the law passed, but maybe it didn't.
Elk I don't think I've ever read a post from you that I could honestly say I disagree with, but that changed when I read this one. Your mistake is in thinking that Starbucks is a "public" entity..... It isn't. It isn't funded by tax payers, nor am I aware of any government funding or breaks for Starbucks, therefore, it isn't "public" by any means an has no obligation to keep it's policies similar to state law.. It's a private business where the public is invited in. They also have no obligation to guarantee your safety. You are well aware of their "no guns" policy before you enter and even if you aren't, you should be, because it's your responsibility to as a citizen who carries a firearm. If you are concerned about your safety without your gun, the obvious choice would be not to patronize that establishment.
I've spent many years in the whole "smoking ban" debate and this same error is very commonly made amongst those that support government mandated bans. Most businesses are private, not public, and as such their owners should have every right to decide what you can bring in and what you can't, and what you can do and what you cannot do in their business.
Wonder how this is working in Texas. While I was down there doing a project, they were trying to pass a law saying that public business could not dictate if you carry or not, they must adhere to State Laws. I thought the law passed, but maybe it didn't.
Not sure if this passed or not in the last biannual legislature, but I don't recall hearing that it did. Regardless, in Texas, businesses have to post the legislative language in a specific way in order for the gun prohibition to be legal. Businesses can post "No guns" signs all day long but they aren't legal unless they use the 30.06 language. The vast majority of businesses here don't try to limit CC. Of the ones that do try to prohibit guns, most aren't familiar enough with state statutes to post the legally required sign to that forces compliance.
Elk I don't think I've ever read a post from you that I could honestly say I disagree with, but that changed when I read this one. Your mistake is in thinking that Starbucks is a "public" entity..... It isn't. It isn't funded by tax payers, nor am I aware of any government funding or breaks for Starbucks, therefore, it isn't "public" by any means an has no obligation to keep it's policies similar to state law.. It's a private business where the public is invited in. They also have no obligation to guarantee your safety. You are well aware of their "no guns" policy before you enter and even if you aren't, you should be, because it's your responsibility to as a citizen who carries a firearm. If you are concerned about your safety without your gun, the obvious choice would be not to patronize that establishment.
I've spent many years in the whole "smoking ban" debate and this same error is very commonly made amongst those that support government mandated bans. Most businesses are private, not public, and as such their owners should have every right to decide what you can bring in and what you can't, and what you can do and what you cannot do in their business.
What I meant by that was "Open to the Public", not publically owned. If they prohibit me from protecting my family, then they better have the moral obligation to ensure my family's safety, or I won't go in there. You are right, they do not have a legal obligation, but they have a moral obligation when they open the doors to anybody walking down the street. Not talking legalities here, but morals.
As a matter of fact, I do not, nor have I ever went into a Starbucks. I don't like the clientel they attract where I live.
What I meant by that was "Open to the Public", not publically owned. If they prohibit me from protecting my family, then they better have the moral obligation to ensure my family's safety, or I won't go in there. You are right, they do not have a legal obligation, but they have a moral obligation when they open the doors to anybody walking down the street. Not talking legalities here, but morals.
As a matter of fact, I do not, nor have I ever went into a Starbucks. I don't like the clientel they attract where I live.
I see where you're coming from. You could argue that they have a moral obligation Some even ty and argue that they have a legal obligation. I just saw on the news tonight where the family is suing cracker barrel for there daughter and grandkids being shot by their enraged father. The Aurora families are suing Century 21 for what happened to their loved ones. I think this type of suit is despicable.
My whole point is, I completely support a business owners right to say "no guns" "guns allowed" "no smoking" "smoking allowed" etc. etc.
I see where you're coming from. You could argue that they have a moral obligation Some even ty and argue that they have a legal obligation. I just saw on the news tonight where the family is suing cracker barrel for there daughter and grandkids being shot by their enraged father. The Aurora families are suing Century 21 for what happened to their loved ones. I think this type of suit is despicable.
My whole point is, I completely support a business owners right to say "no guns" "guns allowed" "no smoking" "smoking allowed" etc. etc.
Well, I do to, in a way. A business owner, is the owner and he should be allowed to do what he wants, with his business, HOWEVER, when you start a business, there are certain things that you have to abide by, (poor choice of words) or certain things you have to accept and be accountable for when you allow "Public" into your place. For instance, you couldn't say, "No redheads allowed", or "No women who work in finance". You are responsible for your business, but you have to give some, for the public. It is just something that you have to put up with. I think that my lawful right to carry, is one of those things. If you opened a bar, you would naturally have to assume that people are going to drink, and that some of those people are going to get drunk, and some of those drunks are going to cause trouble. That is the nature of owning a bar. If you open it to the public, you can't say, "No previous AA members, nobody that drinks whiskey straight, nobody that drinks beer at the rate of 12 oz in less than 15 minues, etc..." You have a responsibility to JQ Public, if you are going to open those doors.
To me, it's much the same as state preemption laws. When the state says, "You can now carry a pistol for your defense." A town can't come along and say, "The state may have given you a permit, but you can't carry in our town." It kind of conflicts with what the state and our voting rights are there for. So how can Starbucks, go against state law, and local law, to further restrict you from your rights as a citizen?
The thing is that open carry is not even a good way to carry for defense, its like the coach putting up on the tron the next play they are going to run. That would be dumb and so would open carry. I want to not be a target, and second have the element of surprise. So there you are in a bank that is about to be robbed, you open carry, you would be the first to take a bullet to the head. If I were going to rob a place or even need a gun, would I go after the guy in the corner with what seemed like no weapon or the guy with the AR? Its only done anyway to cause people not comfortable with guns to be more uncomfortable.
Its like Ted Nugent yelling suck on this Hillary while waving around an AR or M4 what ever it was he had. Well if your Ted playing to the Low IQ base that works for the show but its a stupid thing to do as it makes gun owners look like the biggest idiots of the century to non gun-owners. For those who say they hate us anyway, you remind me of my old Religion the Jehovah's Witnesses who would say when people would ask, why do we knock on doors on Christmas and holidays it makes people hate us, they would say the same thing, they hate us anyway. Not good logic and its just stupid.
The thing is that open carry is not even a good way to carry for defense, its like the coach putting up on the tron the next play they are going to run. That would be dumb and so would open carry. I want to not be a target, and second have the element of surprise. So there you are in a bank that is about to be robbed, you open carry, you would be the first to take a bullet to the head. If I were going to rob a place or even need a gun, would I go after the guy in the corner with what seemed like no weapon or the guy with the AR? Its only done anyway to cause people not comfortable with guns to be more uncomfortable.
Its like Ted Nugent yelling suck on this Hillary while waving around an AR or M4 what ever it was he had. Well if your Ted playing to the Low IQ base that works for the show but its a stupid thing to do as it makes gun owners look like the biggest idiots of the century to non gun-owners. For those who say they hate us anyway, you remind me of my old Religion the Jehovah's Witnesses who would say when people would ask, why do we knock on doors on Christmas and holidays it makes people hate us, they would say the same thing, they hate us anyway. Not good logic and its just stupid.
That is YOUR opinion, and I respect that. It is probably valid for where you live. Where people are afraid of guns and don't see them often. Where they are taught to be afraid of anybody that has a gun.
Police open carry and when a bad guy goes into a convienience store to rob it, if he see's a cop with a gun, he quietly changes his mind and leaves. It doesn't make the cop a target and the cop, certainly didn't need the element of surprise.
People are uncomfortable with guns because John Q Public has made them believe that they need to be afraid of guns. It is not so, where I live. But then again, we don't parade around like we're hot ****, pointing out to everybody, "Hey look, I'm armed". We don't carry an AR into the store to pick up a 6 pack. We're not out to prove a point to anybody.
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