Should homeowner's associations be allowed to ban solar panels/clotheslines? (lawyer, Marines)

[NoExcuses]

Originally Posted by elnina

Do YOU live in a HOA community??

Nope. Like I said, there aren't any around here.

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

It really would be easier of folks would just pay their bills and follow the rules that they agreed to follow. (What bunch of deadbeats also!) Personally, I grew up where there were a lot of clotheslines and think they look kinda 'trailer park'.

Kind of snooty there, don't you think? I have a very low opinion of people who think they're better than others.

We're not rules-Nazis measuring peoples lawns or dictating what shade of pink the tulips in their yards can be. Behavior has to get pretty egregious before we act. Most people like having a nice neighborhood and agree on the rules that keep it that way. Then there's the other 5%. (Duct tape over broken windows?? Is that really acceptable!?!?)

You sure sound like rules-nazis. Really, you do.

And you make it sound like either live in a house that is 'half a mil', or live in poverty. I hope you never need an ambulance or police officer. Those people live in houses that, by your description, is below you, yet they take care of people. Even the arrogant ones.

But, go ahead and put one up. Your success depends on the community and how they react to it.

I've had one up for years. Most people have them.

Half a mil isn't the most expensive home in the area, but it's still a serious chunk of change for those of us who have to work for it. I've seen neighbors with tears in their eyes when they've been foreclosed on, so that kind of money must mean something to them...

Apparently it means something to you and your rule-nazi friends. It doesn't impress me at all.

[ottomobeale]

Solar panels should NOT be bannable. Clothes lines the other way.

7 loads 45 mins each ~ 22 KWH a week. Solar panels can easy do this every day. Its a matter of amount of ugly vs amount of energy savings.

I would not be against rules restricting panels to flat mount, overall rectangular shape of system and must be within the outline of the south/west facing roof used for mounting. (IE no hang off or crazy shapes)

[Workin_Hard]

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

Kind of snooty there, don't you think? I have a very low opinion of people who think they're better than others.You sure sound like rules-nazis. Really, you do..

No, I grew up in a poor town and people either wouldn't or couldn't make it more visually appealing. My opinion stands. And yes, I know what they say about opinions so save your breath in commenting on that.

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

And you make it sound like either live in a house that is 'half a mil', or live in poverty. I hope you never need an ambulance or police officer. Those people live in houses that, by your description, is below you, yet they take care of people. Even the arrogant ones.

I know all the guys at the local fire station and stop by often. They're all invited to our community picnics and are welcome guests. Last fall we had a safety day at one with the EMTs showing off an ambulance and what they do. The cops set up with a cruiser, K9 demo, and took photos of the neighborhood kids for 'safety kits' - recent pics, DNA swab, etc. - for parents to keep handy. The officers who patrol usually stop by to chat when they see me working in the yard on on the truck. We had an incident where someone was acting 'odd' with local kids. I blocked him inside the neighborhood by obstructing the street with my truck and we had officers and detectives there in minutes. Fine people, one and all and I can't say enough good things about them.

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

Apparently it means something to you and your rule-nazi friends. It doesn't impress me at all.

So you think the examples of 'egregious behavior' I cited are all ok? Let's review (keeping in mind we're on 1/4 acre lots and close enough to have to see these things)... junk cars in driveway... OK by you; refrigerators kept in front of house... OK by you; theft of land... OK by you; taped up broken windows... OK by you. Not paying your bills... OK by you. Living in the middle of this... Your vision of Paradise, eh?

That's OK by me if you're not impressed. I won't lose any sleep tonight, I promise! You can picture us in our SS jack boots, swilling steins of beer and singing German war songs if it makes you happy.

[Workin_Hard]

Originally Posted by ottomobeale

Solar panels should NOT be bannable. Clothes lines the other way.

7 loads 45 mins each ~ 22 KWH a week. Solar panels can easy do this every day. Its a matter of amount of ugly vs amount of energy savings.

I would not be against rules restricting panels to flat mount, overall rectangular shape of system and must be within the outline of the south/west facing roof used for mounting. (IE no hang off or crazy shapes)

We're using the Virginia Code as the basis of our actions on solar panels.

Title 67; Chapter 7 states:

§ 67-701. Covenants regarding solar power.
A. Effective July 1, 2008, no community association shall prohibit an owner from installing or using a solar energy collection device on that owner's property. However a community association may establish reasonable restrictions concerning the size, place, and manner of placement of such solar energy collection devices.
B. The community association may prohibit or restrict the installation of solar energy collection devices on the common elements or common area within the real estate development served by the community association. A community association may establish reasonable restrictions as to the size, place, and manner of placement or installation of any solar energy collection device installed on the common elements or common area.
C. This section shall not apply with respect to any provision of a restrictive covenant that restricts the installation or use of any solar collection device if such provision became effective prior to July 1, 2008.

Our restrictions only state that panels must be low profile with frames painted to match the roof shingles, and installed below the roof line on the back of the house unless definitive proof is presented that it will not function as designed. Beyond that, it's an aesthetics issue left to the Architectural Review Board (comprised of community residents).

And we all agree that clotheslines are tacky.

[beldenmeg]

What is missing here is the test of being reasonable? I live in a neighborhood with such restrictions except they only have to be out of public view. My roof faces south on the street side. I wanted to solar heat my pool. So, I installed the panels on the ground behind my home where they get the southern exposure and blocked their view by a vine covered fence. If people search for reasonable solutions others will usually respond reasonably. Most people want a HOA to enforce the rules on their neighbors and leave them alone. If HOA rules were voted in by a quoram of residents and comply with the by-laws wether you lived there before or not, you must follow the rules. It all depends on the covenants, by-laws and State Laws. The best advice is follow the rules and work toward a reasonable solution with your HOA.

[TropicalAussie]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

And we all agree that clotheslines are tacky.

No we don't.

[sailordave]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

Some HOAs do get out of control. Most do not. Without them, you might be looking at chickens in the next door neighbor's yard, RVs and boats in the driveway, motorcycles stored on the lawn, and lime green shutters with pink highlights across the street. I don't know your situation or tastes, but I didn't drop half a mil on a house to live like that!

Oh heaven forbid my neighbor raise chickens for eggs and free range meat. How dare my neighbor engage in recreational activities like camping or boating and want to keep those items on the property he/she owns. How dare my neighbor park a car or motorcycle on the property he/she owns. How dare you try to tell people what they can or cannot do on their property. I don't worry about other people's property or home. I worry about my yard, my vehicles, and my home. Home Owner's Association is nothing more than Communism Lite.

[sailordave]

Yes, HOAs are rules-nazis. Some people enjoy growing fresh fruits and vegetables in their yard but are prevented from doing so because of HOA rules-nazis.

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

Would you plant corn in the front yard also because fresh tastes better? If you buy into an HOA community you are legally bound to follow the rules. Options for the association, should they enforce the rules, include fines (in accordance with state laws - Virginia is very specific on that), suing for specific performance, or self-correction whereby the association can have it's designated agents enter the property with court assistance (e.g., sheriff's deputies present) to fix the problem. How far it goes depends on the determiniation of the community and the Board's willingness to enforce the rules. (Hey, remember - you chose to live there!) in our case, we routinely issue fines of $10/day up to a 90-day maxium of $900. If the condition is not cured, we restart the fines on day 91. One neighbor insisted on keeping junk cars in his driveway and has paid over $1800 this year alone. Another had a refrigerator sitting in his driveway for a month, only moving it when the fines started. Yet another expanded his back yard by enclosing adjacent common property in a fence; eight months later, after a lot of refusals on his part to fix it, a contractor with a Bobcat tore it down (with police present) and piled the debris in his yard. That cost him $6,000 in fines, legal fees, and the cost of removal. The association sued him, got a judgement and garnished his wages for the full amount.

It really would be easier of folks would just pay their bills and follow the rules that they agreed to follow. (What bunch of deadbeats also!) Personally, I grew up where there were a lot of clotheslines and think they look kinda 'trailer park'.

We're not rules-Nazis measuring peoples lawns or dictating what shade of pink the tulips in their yards can be. Behavior has to get pretty egregious before we act. Most people like having a nice neighborhood and agree on the rules that keep it that way. Then there's the other 5%. (Duct tape over broken windows?? Is that really acceptable!?!?)

But, go ahead and put one up. Your success depends on the community and how they react to it.

Half a mil isn't the most expensive home in the area, but it's still a serious chunk of change for those of us who have to work for it. I've seen neighbors with tears in their eyes when they've been foreclosed on, so that kind of money must mean something to them...

[sailordave]

Originally Posted by TropicalAussie

No we don't.

I second your motion.

[TropicalAussie]

Originally Posted by sailordave

Home Owner's Association is nothing more than Communism Lite.

Fascism, not communism- if they are 'HOA-Nazis' they must be fascists