Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you refuse the care, I agree you shouldn't be fined. However, can you honestly tell me that if you are on deaths door step, and in sever pain because of cancer, that you aren't going to the emergency room? I think not.
Can you honestly tell me that if your child has a fever of 102, and you can't get it to come down you aren't taking them to the emergency room. I know there is something out there that will cause you to call 911 and go to the hospital, and that means you are using our healthcare system.
Well, for some, it might be against their religion. For me, it's against MY religion to pay a doctor more than he's worth. He's wants $5 or $10 for the time he's spent with me, that's okay I guess. But $50 for an office visit that lasts 15 minutes? Get real.
We went through this same discussion a few months back. Since then I have checked with several medical professionals. It IS LEGAL to refuse medical treatment of any kind. Even an emergency situation. If you are unable to make the choice at the time, it is possible to draw up a legal document stating such for any future incident.
Just a small clarification: Quote from an EMTALA site which I'll post the link to following:
In the case of a hospital that has an emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for Medicare benefits and regardless of ability to pay) comes by him or herself or with another person to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual's behalf for examination or treatment of a medical condition by qualified medical personnel (as determined by the hospital in its rules and regulations), the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital's emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition exists. The examinations must be conducted by individuals determined qualified by hospital by-laws or rules and regulations and who meet the requirements of Sec. 482.55 concerning emergency services personnel and direction.
Hospitals must jump through hoops for reimbursement be it from Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance. The must be certified, qualified, cross all t's and dot all i's. If they fail to do that, they won't get paid, and risk being fined heavily. Believe me, they take this seriously, and they will not, under any circumstance refuse treatment.
Just a small clarification: Quote from an EMTALA site which I'll post the link to following:
In the case of a hospital that has an emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for Medicare benefits and regardless of ability to pay) comes by him or herself or with another person to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual's behalf for examination or treatment of a medical condition by qualified medical personnel (as determined by the hospital in its rules and regulations), the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital's emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition exists. The examinations must be conducted by individuals determined qualified by hospital by-laws or rules and regulations and who meet the requirements of Sec. 482.55 concerning emergency services personnel and direction.
Hospitals must jump through hoops for reimbursement be it from Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance. The must be certified, qualified, cross all t's and dot all i's. If they fail to do that, they won't get paid, and risk being fined heavily. Believe me, they take this seriously, and they will not, under any circumstance refuse treatment.
No, they will not refuse treatment to anyone seeking it. But, you as a citizen of a free country have the right to refuse medical treatment from them. I watched it happen several months ago at work. A man had a seizure of some sort. The EMT's and police were called. After taking some readings, the EMT requested the man be taken to the hospital. He refused. They had him sign a waiver and were on their way. They had no power to force him to the hospital.
Also, my cousin was an EMT for years. He once responded to a man who had been kicked by a horse. My cousin determined that there was internal bleeding and was going to take the man to the hospital. He refused. Again, the man was required to sign a waver. That evening, the man died. The EMT's were not held accountable since the man, determined to be of sound mind, had refused treatment.
Here is a summary from a New York court ruling:
As a general rule, every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body and cannot be subjected to medical treatment without his consent.
From West's Encyclopedia of American Law:
Consent, particularly informed consent, is the cornerstone of patients' rights. Consent is based on the inviolability of one's person. It means that doctors do not have the right to touch or treat a patient without that patient's approval, because the patient is the one who must live with the consequences and deal with any discomfort caused by treatment. A doctor can be held liable for committing a battery if the doctor touches the patient without first obtaining the patient's consent. (...)
Consent must be voluntary, competent, and informed. Voluntary means that, when the patient gives consent, he or she is free from extreme duress and is not intoxicated or under the influence of medication, and that the doctor has not coerced the patient into giving consent.
Everyone of age and sound mind has the right to refuse treatment. At least that's the way it has been. We'll see what happens in our newly constructed Borg Collective in the future.
He's wants $5 or $10 for the time he's spent with me, that's okay I guess. But $50 for an office visit that lasts 15 minutes? Get real.
I can see you have never run a business and payed overhead like wages, taxes, rent and utilities. That $10 office visit is pretty well history.
I was at a pool this summer and heard a young girl complain about a locksmith who charged her $20 to unlock her car. She was all upset cause it only took him 60 seconds. She failed to consider his drive time, auto expenses to get there, phone bill and yellow page ad.
I thought how naive she was and that $20 was a bargain.
That's beside the point, actually. How many people out there are making $200 or more an hour? That's what paying $50 for a 15 minute visit with the doctor is like. You might be there more than 15 minutes, but if the doctor spends more than 15 minutes on you, you're lucky.
Well, for some, it might be against their religion. For me, it's against MY religion to pay a doctor more than he's worth. He's wants $5 or $10 for the time he's spent with me, that's okay I guess. But $50 for an office visit that lasts 15 minutes? Get real.
I'd say that brain surgery, or even getting my appendix taken out when it has ruptured is worth a little more than 50 bucks. In fact, I'd say that SAVING MY LIFE would be worth well over 20,000 dollars to me.
Of course, they cost considerably more than that, because of the doctors knowledge, medicines, treatment, nurse care and their knowledge, etc.
Thats why people need insurance. I don't pay for it so I don't need it, I pay for it for the chance I might need it.
So like I said, if you swear to never go to a hospital/doctor/clinic or any other healthcare professional, ever unless you are paying for your treatment in cash, up front, then I see no reason for you to be fined.
But as I said before also, that will never happen. People who sign that thinking they will never get sick, will come crawling to the ER when they are in severe pain, or on deaths door. Then they won't have the money to pay for their treatment, and then we'll all be paying for your bills then anyway.
So like I said, if you swear to never go to a hospital/doctor/clinic or any other healthcare professional, ever unless you are paying for your treatment in cash, up front, then I see no reason for you to be fined.
Well, now there are three people with the ability to think logically rather than emotionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
But as I said before also, that will never happen. People who sign that thinking they will never get sick, will come crawling to the ER when they are in severe pain, or on deaths door. Then they won't have the money to pay for their treatment, and then we'll all be paying for your bills then anyway.
I won't even take sick days--you don't think I won't end up dying AT work?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
