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You pay through taxes to cover medicaid, you pay through increased costs in insurance premiums. The insurance industry bargains with healthcare providers to overpay as part of "confidential" contractual agreements, and tacks that cost onto your premiums under "the cost to do business." You pay in the Emergency Room when you get your pills at a cost of many dollars over what they would ordinarily cost in a pharmacy in order to help offset their uninsured patient's pills.
States reimburse whatever they happen to feel like reimbursing whenever they feel like reimbursing it, so providers have to look to recoup costs somehow or they simply go broke and close facilities. Then we'll cry about not having anywhere to go when we are sick or injured. Yeesh.
Now the government wants to force people into purchasing insurance? How in heck are they going to enforce it? Fines? Jail time? Good luck with that. EMTALA laws dictate that Emergency Rooms must take care of patients regardless of their means to pay. What are they going to do, start chasing down homeless people? To say that mandatory insurance is going to solve the problems that face healthcare is unrealistic at best.
Sure, I'd like to see costs go down, but mandating insurance coverage IMHO, is just about as realistic as the moon being made of cheese.
First of all there's not 1 single health bill. There's like 4 versions, and Obama has done a poor job letting Congress know what he expects from them, hence all the bickering. Do I think healthcare costs in this country is outrageous? You betcha! I have a friend who was just in the ER one day and the bill was like $16000. They charged him for the cotton balls, and waiting 4 hours on a stretcher, etc.
I don't know who exactly it is to blame, because we're a capitalistic society everyone is for-profit and trying to make a buck. Yeah do you think Blue Cross Blue Shields cares about how your stay at the hospital was? No, the minute you step in anywhere for treatment your file is sent to their rescission department to see how they can deny your coverage. Profit is the bottom line.
People saying how Obama is trying to socialize medicine should have gotten rid of Medicare and the VA system a long time ago, they are the biggest socialized medicine there is. Yeah that's right, you already live in a socialized medicine country. But enough rant, my money is either going to pad Aetna CEOs or that tech who grinds up granny into soylent green. I'm glad at least we don't live long enough to drag this debate out, let our kids figure it out and let them do something about it.
It doesn't matter who pays or how they pay, it is simply too expensive because people have unrealistic expectations of how much health care they are entitled to. Yes, it would help to cut out the nearly half of health care costs that are just corporate profits and administrative waste, which contribute nothing to health care. But as long as people believe they have a birthright to very expensive, very high tech medical solutions to every discomfort, it is just going to cost too much. And you can't afford it.
I'm not sure who you're talking about.....but I was thinking about the people who HAVE insurance but don't use it. How about those people? The ones who won't go to a doctor until it's life threatening? Let's fine them.
I don't like the idea of fines. However, I am having to pay a higher tax rate, and higher insurance premiums for those without insurance already. They have to pay nothing, and get all of their serious healthcare taken care of. Why should I have to continue to pay for them, and they don't have to do anything?
Personally, we either need to stop hospitals from charging those with insurance more, to make up for the loss from taking care of those who have no insurance. Of course, the government lets them write off their losses at the end of the year as well.
So what do we do? I think that we should continue treating everyone, but if you can't prove you have insurance at the end of the year, and you've been to see the doctor, then you get no income tax return. That means no earned income credit, or anything of the like. So it'll save us money, and it'll get people to provide their own insurance.
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Originally Posted by TKramar
Why would you willing pay for something that you do not use? Would you pay someone to cut your lawn, and be happy if you had to cut it yourself?
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Originally Posted by TKramar
So..what about the people who already "opt out"?
I seldom agree with Tkramar on this forum, but I agree in this case.
We went through this same discussion a few months back. Since then I have checked with several medical professionals. It IS LEGAL to refuse medical treatment of any kind. Even an emergency situation. If you are unable to make the choice at the time, it is possible to draw up a legal document stating such for any future incident.
Now, you tell me why such a person should have to pay a fine for not having insurance. If they legally opt out, why should they be forced to pay for nothing? And don’t give me that crap about how crazy a person would be to opt out of medical care. The reason, or sanity of it, does not matter. It is legal.
So tell me... if I am outside your system and I refuse your care (at least anything that I don’t consent to and that I cannot pay out of my own pocket), how can you justify fining me? Again, assume that this is a legal refusal of any and all health care. Don’t worry about whether you think it’s crazy. It doesn’t matter. The question is how you can justify a fine, assuming there will never be service rendered and that it is legal to refuse this service?
I pay for insurance on my home, on my vehicles, and have not had a claim ever on my home ever, and at least 20 years on my vehicles. But the fact that I do have coverage and almost everyone else does, as a requirement by states or by the mortgage holder, (no mortgage on either of my homes, but they are insured) keeps the premium cost down where they are affordable by all.
I pay for health insurance, and other than a physical from time to time have never used it either.
That is why they call it "insurance". Defined: 1 a : the business of insuring persons or property b : coverage by contract whereby one party undertakes to indemnify or guarantee another against loss by a specified contingency or peril
If you are paying for health insurance, or your employer is on your behalf, you are paying too much, as you are also paying the hidden costs of paying for the very high care costs of those without. Why is their care so high, because they don't have insurance and don't seek care when they should.
The administrative cost of assessing the fines and the judicial costs of enforcing them could very well exceed the total revenue that the fines take in, so it would be a net drain on the treasury. But never mind, the principle of trashing liberty is worth any price.
We are ALL paying for the uninsured now by paying higher bills every time we see a Dr., surgeon, go to the hospital, etc.
Taxes~call your county commissioner and find out how much your county pays yearly for medical expenses for the indigent.
I believe they used a family of 4 making 66,000 as an example. They would be fined and there is a good reason for it. Since there would be a healthcare exchange to get insurance from, why shouldn't they have to pay to be insured? Their premiums would be considerably less then they would be going through an ins. company now. AND that's taking into account that they are all insurable. Many people are not insurable now and that's unfortunate.
I have to laugh at a couple of the commercials where they have a foreigner speaking about their terrible healthcare. Most of them actually scoff at our present system and with good reason. We're doing a pretty good job of lining the pockets of the insurance executives, but not taking care of our own people and that's sad.
I seldom agree with Tkramar on this forum, but I agree in this case.
We went through this same discussion a few months back. Since then I have checked with several medical professionals. It IS LEGAL to refuse medical treatment of any kind. Even an emergency situation. If you are unable to make the choice at the time, it is possible to draw up a legal document stating such for any future incident.
Now, you tell me why such a person should have to pay a fine for not having insurance. If they legally opt out, why should they be forced to pay for nothing? And don’t give me that crap about how crazy a person would be to opt out of medical care. The reason, or sanity of it, does not matter. It is legal.
So tell me... if I am outside your system and I refuse your care (at least anything that I don’t consent to and that I cannot pay out of my own pocket), how can you justify fining me? Again, assume that this is a legal refusal of any and all health care. Don’t worry about whether you think it’s crazy. It doesn’t matter. The question is how you can justify a fine, assuming there will never be service rendered and that it is legal to refuse this service?
If you refuse the care, I agree you shouldn't be fined. However, can you honestly tell me that if you are on deaths door step, and in sever pain because of cancer, that you aren't going to the emergency room? I think not.
Can you honestly tell me that if your child has a fever of 102, and you can't get it to come down you aren't taking them to the emergency room. I know there is something out there that will cause you to call 911 and go to the hospital, and that means you are using our healthcare system.
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