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Old 05-07-2011, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Charlotte county, Florida
4,196 posts, read 6,421,702 times
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Personally, it's wrong to judge anyone...
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:28 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,254,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx View Post
If you work hard to line your own pockets that's selfish, not admirable.
That's common sense. Why work to line the pockets of others?

Quote:
Do you deserve to be rewarded for your hard work? Sure. But what is central to your work? WHY do you work so hard? So you can live better? Or to help other people?
Are you serious? If "other people" include the kids you voluntarily had, absolutely.

The taxes I pay, out of my working so hard, helps others. And they ain't getting one more dime out of me, to take away from MY kids, if I can help it.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,966,786 times
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Capitalism is predicated on each of us working to feed our personal greed. There are few safety nets as compared to many Western European countries. In it's ideal form, there would be no resources for the needy supported by our tax dollars and those who had some bad luck would be just thrown to the wayside.

On the other hand there are those who seem never to put forth the efforts necessary to get off the dole - people who seem to need a swift boot to get them to function in the real world. I remember Oprah saying she opened her school in Africa because in the U.S., when she asked poor kids what they wanted, it was a new pair of Nikes or some such, while African kids answered that they wanted to go to school.

There is something wrong/misplaced with the altruism in today's society.

I don't think we are essentially a selfish people. But for the accident of birth, anyone's kid could be our kid. More well being for each of us advances the nation as a whole. It is not a parent's job to get 'things' for his offspring. It is a parent's pride to produce independent and successful future adults, and sometimes that means to allow the kid to struggle to make a buck though you could just as easily give it to him.

There is pressure for financial success in our society, perhaps more so than in some others. If we don't start saving and learning how to invest at an early age we may be paupers in our old age. If we don't stay abreast of changes in our field, or keep advancing, we may be left behind and be paupers in our old age. We don't rely on family to help us usually, in fact, if we don't make our kids independent at an early age, they may be freeloading off of us later on, which eats up what little we have saved for retirement.

It is hard to be responsible to ourselves and our own and to still be altruistic. It is hard to enter a profession we love if we know we will not be well remunerated through it. This is probably one of the many reasons why kids are not motivated towards the sciences and the arts.

I think that a part of our training of youth should be in altruism, though. I think it is important to share and to help causes. A child should see a parent contribute to charity, best usually if it is a small local one where you can see the quality of the volunteers and how the money is being spent. It is good that a kid sees you do things to help others, mow a neighbor's lawn when they are ill, carry their garbage cans in sometimes if that's what's done you do in your neighborhood.

Going through one's life motivated only by a 'what's in it for me' attitude will most likely harm the child whose watching and emulating you - either that, or turn them against you later on.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:41 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,770,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanandneedtobeloved View Post
I've noticed a lot of people, especially Americans for some reason, will often praise a person's merits, and 'hard working' is one of the ones that comes up most often.

Which makes me wonder, because I do get philosophical about little things like this, is a person's value judged by how much they break their backs? Is a workaholic a nicer, better and more valuable person than someone who likes to take it easy?

Personally I think the concept of being a hard worker defining your worth as a human being is rooted in two things. One of them is Capitalist ideology. In capitalism, the person who produces more stuff, more wealth, is considered better than the person who takes it easy and only works hard enough to survive, and is considered infinitely more moral than the person who lives off the dole.

The other reason is that in the old days, being lazy often meant you were dishonest, and weren't doing your part. Nowadays, we have an excess of wealth, and people have a perfectly legit choice to be lazy and not produce. In fact I would argue those who work too much are foolish because most of their labor goes into enriching people who do not deserve it.
In the USA a persons 'worth' is tied to his/her financial accomplishments , mainly ; if the money accrued was due to hard work...especially by your typical average person who labored excessively and applied his talents and not thru inheritance...then that person gains greater applause and recognition ----this is kind of the unspoken rule here in America , because here, money is worshipped and people will literally sell thier souls to get it . Power/prestige/and money are the catalysts , and to many, they believe this is their ultimate purpose in being alive at this point in history. (Sad , as it is.....) .
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,295,747 times
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Being a hard worker is not confined to "capitalism" or wealth. It's a frame of mind, a way of life, for many people who take pride in their efforts. My husband is a workaholic and we're on that border of lower-class to poverty. I get mad at him for it but he's gotten better.

I do think working too much can be a sickness and is not healthy, and I don't promote it. On the other hand, I'm sure much that many of the things we enjoy are available to us through those who worked their asses off to get it. I don't think the US would necessarily benefit if everyone had the same attitude that I do ~ put in my paid 8 hours with not an extra minute to spare.

Unfortunately, too many hard workers are not well compensated for it.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,966,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
Being a hard worker is not confined to "capitalism" or wealth. It's a frame of mind, a way of life, for many people who take pride in their efforts. My husband is a workaholic and we're on that border of lower-class to poverty. I get mad at him for it but he's gotten better.

I do think working too much can be a sickness and is not healthy, and I don't promote it. On the other hand, I'm sure much that many of the things we enjoy are available to us through those who worked their asses off to get it. I don't think the US would necessarily benefit if everyone had the same attitude that I do ~ put in my paid 8 hours with not an extra minute to spare.

Unfortunately, too many hard workers are not well compensated for it.
Yes. It's all supply and demand. If a field of endeavor has few qualified workers it will pay more even if those individuals do not work so hard. The real trick is getting into an area with few applicants. The more people out there ready to do your job, the harder you must work to keep that job. Labor unions used to offer protection for workers. They actually created a well paid middle class which were also consumers and made America what it is today. Unions freed children from working and gave them time to go to school to qualify for better jobs.

It is good that there are all types of people with differing attitudes, and I would not like a strictly socialist economy, either. Common sense should rule. I think our government too much protects top heavy bureaucratic mega corporations. Most of our innovations have come from smaller businesses which are being stifled by the big guys. Look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:23 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,770,366 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
Being a hard worker is not confined to "capitalism" or wealth. It's a frame of mind, a way of life, for many people who take pride in their efforts. My husband is a workaholic and we're on that border of lower-class to poverty. I get mad at him for it but he's gotten better.

I do think working too much can be a sickness and is not healthy, and I don't promote it. On the other hand, I'm sure much that many of the things we enjoy are available to us through those who worked their asses off to get it. I don't think the US would necessarily benefit if everyone had the same attitude that I do ~ put in my paid 8 hours with not an extra minute to spare.

Unfortunately, too many hard workers are not well compensated for it.
I agree, it isnt as far as ones own family is concerned (perhaps) , but, outsiders looking in certainly equate success with how much money or possessions one has accumulated and flaunts . Hence : 'Keeping up with the Joneses' (superficial) mindsets . I personally think its a foolish treadmill many americans willfully jump on. I for one, would rather know The Creator of the Universe personally, and be gauranteed a residence in eternity with him ... than all the money and tea in the world.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:31 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,791,847 times
Reputation: 2366
Quote:
Originally Posted by humanandneedtobeloved View Post
i've noticed a lot of people, especially americans for some reason, will often praise a person's merits, and 'hard working' is one of the ones that comes up most often.

Which makes me wonder, because i do get philosophical about little things like this, is a person's value judged by how much they break their backs? Is a workaholic a nicer, better and more valuable person than someone who likes to take it easy?

Personally i think the concept of being a hard worker defining your worth as a human being is rooted in two things. One of them is capitalist ideology. In capitalism, the person who produces more stuff, more wealth, is considered better than the person who takes it easy and only works hard enough to survive, and is considered infinitely more moral than the person who lives off the dole.

The other reason is that in the old days, being lazy often meant you were dishonest, and weren't doing your part. Nowadays, we have an excess of wealth, and people have a perfectly legit choice to be lazy and not produce. In fact i would argue those who work too much are foolish because most of their labor goes into enriching people who do not deserve it.
+1
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,966,786 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
I agree, it isnt as far as ones own family is concerned (perhaps) , but, outsiders looking in certainly equate success with how much money or possessions one has accumulated and flaunts . Hence : 'Keeping up with the Joneses' (superficial) mindsets . I personally think its a foolish treadmill many americans willfully jump on. I for one, would rather know The Creator of the Universe personally, and be gauranteed a residence in eternity with him ... than all the money and tea in the world.
Fortunately, it is not an either/of situation. God made some people to be born in wealth and some in poverty and smiles on them alike. It is not what you have, but what you do with it.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:02 AM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,770,366 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Fortunately, it is not an either/of situation. God made some people to be born in wealth and some in poverty and smiles on them alike. It is not what you have, but what you do with it.
True, but like God says :' It is hard for a rich man to enter heaven' because the lure of his riches are often his priority and treasure ---- yet it is not impossible providing he keeps the Creator/Saviour number one and uses his time, talents, and treasure for the glory of God .

We all surrender to something , and in a prosperous country as the USA still is (but perhaps not much longer) , it often serves to enslave One to the religion of riches and materialism which in turn bolsters narcissism .
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