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Location: Augusta, GA ''The fastest rising city in the southeast''
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Originally Posted by citidata18
Savannah's growing at a faster rate, having added an estimated 40,000 people since 2010. Its growth is being driven by the rapid expansion of the port as well as the tourism industry.
So is Atlanta a higher tier over Chicago since its growing faster? Savannah’s growth is higher in percentage only.
Having lived in Athens for undergrad and grad school, I would say Columbus has surpassed Athens as a foodie town. Downtown restaurant growth in Columbus is staggering.
Ha, I'm not quite ready to say that (The World Famous and Hugh's two ventures in Athens keep it solidly in third), but you're right the growth has been staggering, especially the last 5 years. I thought is was a solid fail that 7th St Provisions wasn't nominated for a James Beard this year - they've been doing amazing stuff.
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Originally Posted by Columbus1984
With the Krog Street Market type development going in, Columbus is leaps ahead of the other cities. I work in all 3 consistently and Columbus is far ahead of the others with downtown revitalization.
Yeah, like I said in my first post Columbus' Downtown sorta has a headstart over Augusta and Macon, but those two cities are catching up very quickly and I think it's inevitable that Augusta passes us soon with Macon to follow. And I say that thinking Macon's Downtown is right now better than Augusta's.
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Originally Posted by Iconographer
That's a good question, and frankly a hard one for me to articulate.
I guess I'm looking for one of them to acquire the 'It' factor of cities like Savannah, Charleston, Austin, Portland, Asheville, Nashville and most recently, Greenville and Columbia, SC. All of them have the goods to get there; they just need that push of energy to get to that place. What will it take, IYO?
So we're not really concerning ourselves with metro populations or growth, but a more tourism-centric or "destination" city feel?
I really doubt any of the Fall Line cities will ever reach the same type of tourism tier that Savannah, Charleston, Asheville, and Nashville have. Same with Austin and Columbia (and Nashville) which are capitals and that drives a certain type of growth that's hard to replicate in non-state capital cities. For example, I think 20 years ago you could be in the downtowns of Augusta, Columbus, Macon, and Montgomery and each would have the same kind of rundown, head-on-a-swivel feel to them, that's no longer true for any of them, but Montgomery has gone the furthest. It's a great downtown to be in now.
Greenville is kind of attainable and already sorta on par with our Fall Line cities, it's just a larger metro area than any of them, so the extra 300k people in Greenville over Augusta's 600,000 makes a big difference in the feel of the two cities. But the downtown center of Greenville feels pretty similar to our Fall Line downtowns, maybe just 5 or 10 years ahead in redevelopment.
Overall I think it's a great time to be in downtown development in Augusta, Columbus, and Macon. All three have had good growth and each have promising outlooks.
Ha, I'm not quite ready to say that (The World Famous and Hugh's two ventures in Athens keep it solidly in third), but you're right the growth has been staggering, especially the last 5 years. I thought is was a solid fail that 7th St Provisions wasn't nominated for a James Beard this year - they've been doing amazing stuff.
Yeah, like I said in my first post Columbus' Downtown sorta has a headstart over Augusta and Macon, but those two cities are catching up very quickly and I think it's inevitable that Augusta passes us soon with Macon to follow. And I say that thinking Macon's Downtown is right now better than Augusta's.
So we're not really concerning ourselves with metro populations or growth, but a more tourism-centric or "destination" city feel?
I really doubt any of the Fall Line cities will ever reach the same type of tourism tier that Savannah, Charleston, Asheville, and Nashville have. Same with Austin and Columbia (and Nashville) which are capitals and that drives a certain type of growth that's hard to replicate in non-state capital cities. For example, I think 20 years ago you could be in the downtowns of Augusta, Columbus, Macon, and Montgomery and each would have the same kind of rundown, head-on-a-swivel feel to them, that's no longer true for any of them, but Montgomery has gone the furthest. It's a great downtown to be in now.
Greenville is kind of attainable and already sorta on par with our Fall Line cities, it's just a larger metro area than any of them, so the extra 300k people in Greenville over Augusta's 600,000 makes a big difference in the feel of the two cities. But the downtown center of Greenville feels pretty similar to our Fall Line downtowns, maybe just 5 or 10 years ahead in redevelopment.
Overall I think it's a great time to be in downtown development in Augusta, Columbus, and Macon. All three have had good growth and each have promising outlooks.
Quote:
Yeah, like I said in my first post Columbus' Downtown sorta has a headstart over Augusta and Macon, but those two cities are catching up very quickly and I think it's inevitable that Augusta passes us soon with Macon to follow. And I say that thinking Macon's Downtown is right now better than Augusta's.
Augusta probably has more on going projects than Columbus right now. But as we both know, there's a backlog of projects ready to be built in downtown. I say if we see at least 50% of the city village and liberty district development come to life,Columbus will diffidently distance itself from the other two cities.
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Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,466 posts, read 44,108,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayHey
So we're not really concerning ourselves with metro populations or growth, but a more tourism-centric or "destination" city feel?
I really doubt any of the Fall Line cities will ever reach the same type of tourism tier that Savannah, Charleston, Asheville, and Nashville have. Same with Austin and Columbia (and Nashville) which are capitals and that drives a certain type of growth that's hard to replicate in non-state capital cities. For example, I think 20 years ago you could be in the downtowns of Augusta, Columbus, Macon, and Montgomery and each would have the same kind of rundown, head-on-a-swivel feel to them, that's no longer true for any of them, but Montgomery has gone the furthest. It's a great downtown to be in now.
Greenville is kind of attainable and already sorta on par with our Fall Line cities, it's just a larger metro area than any of them, so the extra 300k people in Greenville over Augusta's 600,000 makes a big difference in the feel of the two cities. But the downtown center of Greenville feels pretty similar to our Fall Line downtowns, maybe just 5 or 10 years ahead in redevelopment.
Overall I think it's a great time to be in downtown development in Augusta, Columbus, and Macon. All three have had good growth and each have promising outlooks.
To the bolded, I would postulate that one follows the other. If you create an attractive environment for tourists, permanent residents will follow.
Great comments overall, JH. I need to check out DT Montgomery; your recommendation is the first positive thing I've heard about that city in a very long time.
But the downtown center of Greenville feels pretty similar to our Fall Line downtowns, maybe just 5 or 10 years ahead in redevelopment.
I've gotta disagree with this. The downtowns of the Fall Line cities, at least Augusta and Columbus, are planned and laid out on a grid, whereas Greenville's isn't. It has a narrow, tree-lined Main Street while the Fall Line cities have wide main streets. Greenville's downtown has fewer historic buildings and the Reedy River is really more like a big creek with falls; the Fall Line cities have sizable rivers with riverwalks and another state lies on the other side (for Augusta and Columbus). They don't have a popular urban park like Falls Park and they have a distinctly different feel than Greenville which lies in the heart of the Piedmont. Downtown Greenville is also a bit hillier, which is to be expected given its location. The Fall Line cities also have sizable universities in their downtowns; Greenville has Furman University but it's small and not located in downtown.
Augusta probably has more on going projects than Columbus right now. But as we both know, there's a backlog of projects ready to be built in downtown. I say if we see at least 50% of the city village and liberty district development come to life,Columbus will diffidently distance itself from the other two cities.
Y'ain't kidding.
But I think Augusta's larger population will drive more downtown growth than Columbus will be able to keep pace with. That's kind of true to a lesser extent with Macon (if we look at the total M-WR pop, WR is close enough that a revitalized Macon will begin capturing a lot of residents).
That kind of illustrates what I mean, if a certain % of the population moves back into the city cores, Augusta and Macon are going to eventually outpace Columbus.
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Originally Posted by Iconographer
To the bolded, I would postulate that one follows the other. If you create an attractive environment for tourists, permanent residents will follow.
Like I said earlier I don't think any of these cities will ever reach whatever type of threshold is necessary to become a tourist destination, so I'm not sure significant growth-from-tourism will ever occur. I think all three have and will continue to become regional or event-specific destinations.
I think one of the largest players in these cities are the local universities. AU's shifted master plan will spur downtown development like Mercer and CSU already have and are doing in their downtowns. With the BoR putting a lot of money into AU it has the largest potential. Mercer has started expanding and building for growth. CSU has largely already finished its downtown initiative and the transformation it has made in Columbus cannot be understated.
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Originally Posted by Iconographer
I need to check out DT Montgomery; your recommendation is the first positive thing I've heard about that city in a very long time.
Absolutely do. Stay at the Renaissance or the other hotel on Commerce St. Walk around Commerce and the Riverwalk, catch a Biscuits game, go see the new civil rights memorial (it's surreal), also catch a ride down to Cloverdale/Garden District and check out those shops. Walk around Huntingdon College a tiny but beautiful campus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I've gotta disagree with this. The downtowns of the Fall Line cities, at least Augusta and Columbus, are planned and laid out on a grid, whereas Greenville's isn't. It has a narrow, tree-lined Main Street while the Fall Line cities have wide main streets. Greenville's downtown has fewer historic buildings and the Reedy River is really more like a big creek with falls; the Fall Line cities have sizable rivers with riverwalks and another state lies on the other side (for Augusta and Columbus). They don't have a popular urban park like Falls Park and they have a distinctly different feel than Greenville which lies in the heart of the Piedmont. Downtown Greenville is also a bit hillier, which is to be expected given its location. The Fall Line cities also have sizable universities in their downtowns; Greenville has Furman University but it's small and not located in downtown.
Yeah, I meant more from a restaurants and businesses feel of the downtown area, not so much from a topographic or geographic similarity or average age of buildings. The part of Greenville I've stayed in, the Downtown area is absolutely on a grid pattern (which didn't stop me from getting lost walking back from a concert at the civic center to our hotel 3 blocks away). I gotta say Columbus' main street is nothing if not wide and tree-lined. And Falls Park is very unique and beautiful but it's the exact same idea as the Fall Cities' Riverwalks, which each have popular parks immediately adjacent to the downtown areas.
But anyways, if Greenville doesn't feel to you to be the closest city on Icon's list comparable to the Fall Cities that's fine. It just seemed to fit more than any of the other cities to me.
But I think Augusta's larger population will drive more downtown growth than Columbus will be able to keep pace with. That's kind of true to a lesser extent with Macon (if we look at the total M-WR pop, WR is close enough that a revitalized Macon will begin capturing a lot of residents).
That kind of illustrates what I mean, if a certain % of the population moves back into the city cores, Augusta and Macon are going to eventually outpace Columbus.
I don’t see that happening at all. I see Columbus pushing further ahead. Downtown Macon and Downtown Augusta are both very quiet at night. I’m there weekly. You can’t say that about Columbus. There is constant foot traffic all throughout downtown Columbus. I’ll be in Augusta for work tomorrow and will take note. I’ve been to Augustino’s at the Augusta Marriott and have literally been the only person in there and it’s a huge restaurant. The energy for downtown development is much, and I mean much, higher in Columbus. The pipeline for Columbus is amazing. Several new hotels, downtown apartments, office development, new restaurants popping up monthly, Mercer Medical School expansion, Liberty District redevelopment, City Village, etc. Also, that 25 mile radius for Columbus seems very low. You are pushing very close to downtown Auburn at that point which adds 160k+ to that radius, not to mention Lagrange. Would like to see your source.
So you seem to be talking about right now. And I totally agree with you, that's a spot on assessment of the current situation.
But I was talking about future growth, 5 even 10 years down the road.
I'm not saying that Columbus' Downtown is going to lose momentum or stop growing and redeveloping - it totally is going to keep growing (barring national economic downturn).
The point I was making is that while Columbus' downtown is currently ahead of both Augusta's and Macon's, I very much doubt that will always be the case. The 25m radius population is included to illustrate how there is a higher inherent potential growth in those two cities than in Columbus.
The data is from ArcGIS, I drew a 25m radius over an eyeballed "center" of the cities' downtowns. Each census block falling within or partially within is counted and then the population total is counted from the 2018 Census estimate. The NW range of Columbus' radius falls just short of I85, so that number includes some people in the south part of Opelika, but none in Auburn since that's where AU has its forest.
Yeah, I meant more from a restaurants and businesses feel of the downtown area, not so much from a topographic or geographic similarity or average age of buildings.
I'm not seeing it in that context either. Retail in downtown Greenville is on a completely different level than in any of the Fall Line cities with national retailers like Brooks Brothers and Anthropologie and popular regional chains like Mast General. It also has a full-service Publix. And its restaurant scene is much more advanced as well which is why it's recognized as an emerging foodie city.
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The part of Greenville I've stayed in, the Downtown area is absolutely on a grid pattern (which didn't stop me from getting lost walking back from a concert at the civic center to our hotel 3 blocks away).
The core of the city isn't on a traditional grid and differs considerably from planned cities in that respect. Just look at Greenville's and Augusta's downtowns on Google maps to get a good idea of what I'm talking about.
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And Falls Park is very unique and beautiful but it's the exact same idea as the Fall Cities' Riverwalks, which each have popular parks immediately adjacent to the downtown areas.
But Falls Park lies smack dab in the middle of downtown and is completely integrated with downtown; you can even get on the large boulders and play in the falls. That's quite different than having a riverwalk on the edge of downtown. It's just a completely different experience. The Savannah River isn't even visible from Augusta's downtown core due to the elevated levees. That gives it a sense of physical separation from downtown which is the complete opposite of what you get in Greenville.
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But anyways, if Greenville doesn't feel to you to be the closest city on Icon's list comparable to the Fall Cities that's fine. It just seemed to fit more than any of the other cities to me.
I get that but Greenville also has plenty of notable differences as well.
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