Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are any of your mother's siblings still living? If not, do you have any cousins from your mother's siblings who might have their parent's BC? That would work just as well. When you say "siblings" I'm assuming your mother's biological siblings and not foster siblings.
Also if her sibling(s) are deceased, do an online search for obituaries in case their parents are named there.
I concur.
Agreed. I mentioned earlier being contacted by a 3rd cousin. She allowed me to copy the tree she had.
I still had to go through and verify (a LOT!) ... and change/edit to 'personalize it some.
But it still wasn't anywhere near complete enough to meet MY needs.*
Being a bit OCD about details and loose ends I also did a lot of work o another cousins tree for my adopted family;
my grandmothers people especially. That tree has grown a lot. Sample from HER mothers 'fact sheet' below.
*Because of MD and DC adoption privacy rules I've had to continue to flesh out the Angel's tree ...
it's now at 6400 people vs the (mostly distant cousin) 40,000 dna matches.
All to ferret out which men (declared/known/etc) were in the age range and where they were at the mo/yr. Tedious.
Then there's ferreting out the Q's ... like the other adoptee's
Some angels can make a connection with 3rd cousins but it's not easy because that's one more generation of great grandparents.
You may be better off waiting for a 2nd cousin match.
Did you upload free to my heritage? You may have better luck there or doing a 23 and me while it's on sale for $99, usually black Friday or through Christmas. I haven't been online much the last few weeks so am not sure if their test is still on sale.
23 and me is not a genealogy site like ancestry and my heritage so there won't be family trees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63
Well we don't know enough yet from the OP. If the mother didn't go into foster care until 10 years old, then her parents' names are likely on her BC.
I found my birth mother through DNA because I had a closed adoption and no records, although I knew the surname I was born with. Even so, it took two years to figure it out with DNA. But I've known people who turn to DNA first thinking it will answer their questions, only to find out later that they had the answer under their noses already but didn't think to look at it. Or they could have requested information they weren't aware of.
Last year, NY opened original BCs for adoptees, so if I had waited I would have found out who she was that way. Would have saved me a lot of money and headaches and hundreds of hours working with DNA.
Any search angel would agree that you should gather all the documents available to you first, before searching with DNA. I have been a search angel for a number of other adoptees, and there's nothing more frustrating than working with someone who is too lazy to request the information that they're legally entitled to. It can really throw off the search.
I'm not saying she should not try to order the birth and death certificates, I would not go much farther then that depending on what she gets. Chances are there is no family information on the death certificate and that she will not be able to find her mothers birth certificate, if she does, who knows if a father is even listed?
I met a 2nd cousin on ancestry who's father provided bogus information to the kids. His parents names on his death certificate and marriage certificate are wrong names. His grandmother is listed as having our great grandmothers maiden name while his father is listed as our great grandfather but with an Americanized last name. Had the cousin not met me soon after doing DNA, he would be chasing those bogus names, which unfortunately is his last name which is also his son and grandson who will be passing on this Americanized version of our maternal great grandfathers last name. I have not found when his father Americanized it because he not only came here with his mothers maiden name, he used it in the military. First time I see the new spelling is the marriage license...
My cousin tried ordering his fathers birth certificate from Hungary where his father was born, it took almost a year to go through almost all of 25 or so districts in Budapest only to find no father listed, so it was a year of waiting on records.
While they were looking for the birth certificate, he did a Y-DNA at FTDNA, was already on my heritage and FTDNA plus did a 23 and me when it was on sale for $99.
Unfortunately, he was so busy we could not get together for me to sort his matches anywhere but ancestry where he has no paternal matches for his father, only on his mothers line. Obviously his father has no one who immigrated to the US so his match probably won't come from ancestry.
Ordering the birth certificate really depressed him. It's been 2 1/2 years, he said he's not ready to look because he feels hopeless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal
These are interesting questions.
All my family immigrated to the US after 1900 so a family tree is easy. My parents, aunts and uncles never did the DNA testing. Only my sister and my great-aunt, Lottie's grandson did the test. They are the only results. Although, my brother-in-law's testing came up with much more.
I get so pi**ed off with public trees on Ancestry. Users list my relatives on their trees with absolutely no connection. I've messaged people to explain their mistakes - similar surname with different religion/ethnicity, census with a similar surname, but different children's names and ages, misspelling names, etc. They acknowledge it's wrong, but never change their trees. Imagine that if you don't double check everything, those trees can throw you off the track.
I'll be surprised if your sister doesn't have more DNA matches then those few, even I have about a thousand or so.
I never had close family to first cousins until recently. All of my matches are 2nd cousin or farther.
Your sister may have lots of 4th cousins and distant matches.
I don't pay for ancestry so I can't see public trees which I'm glad because a lot of people have inaccurate trees they copied, usually by getting a family tree hint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK
I didn't say she shouldn't, only that she shouldn't take the DNA test instead of ordering the records. If she wants to also do the DNA test, then yes, order it now while it's on sale. However, it's also not a disaster if she waits for the next sale - which will likely be Valentine's Day, which is not that far away.
I guess that's always possible, but what are the chances of the only person who has answers would just happen to die in the next few months? Even if the OP bought the test today, it wouldn't arrive for possibly a couple weeks, and then of course she has to send the sample back and wait for lab processing, which at this time of year will likely take a few months anyway. There's always a chance of unfortunate timing, but it seems a little like fear mongering to put that idea in people's heads like if they can't get their results tomorrow all will be lost.
It's still more work, especially for a beginner. Not saying she shouldn't do that, but it's something she should be aware of before deciding to completely abandon ordering the records that will include what she's looking for with far less work. Too many people take the DNA test, expecting it to provide their family tree already laid out for them and get frustrated when they realize, no, they still have to put the work into it, especially when they don't have the records to work off of. Using DNA it build your tree when you don't have a paper trail is even harder, so if there's a paper trail available, even if it means ordering copies by mail, I would strongly recommend that first. I don't think it's wise to recommend people don't order vital records... they are called vital records for a reason.
Right, no matter when she orders the test, she may have to wait about 3 months for it to process. I gave my ex a DNA test last year, his took about 6 weeks.
In the Facebook groups, people were posting that they never got a return message, that they found out the person died, most likely from COVID. Some have also posted that they were able to speak to the relative such as their parents sibling that was found using DNA, but that they died within a few months to a year after making contact. It happens when you?re looking for the truth of older relatives. I don't know how old the OP is, I'm nearing 60, my dad died at 69, my mother probably won't last many more years as her family usually die in their early 80's.
Right, she may have a decent match but she may not. It depends on who in her mothers family has done the test. $59 is pretty cheap to weigh your options on whether DNA will work or not to figure out her mothers mystery, the odds are about the same as ordering her death, marriage and birth certificates; which may or may not give her an answer. They are all tools. Normally when I suggest DNA I add a lot more info but decided not to this time because people end up not bothering to do DNA so I wasted my time typing it all up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley.
Following all these comments and advice!! thanks to all taking the time to give feedback.
My sister can't find either Mom's birth or death certificate. I will pursue getting a death cert from California.
My mother was fostered, not adopted, I do know that. I remember the names of her foster parents but have no B-days....I'll look for them anyway to see what I can find. She lived with them for 7 or 8 yrs.
I do have her birth cert number (NY) because it's on the census record for the home where she was (with siblings BTW) but not sure that is going to help me with NY records.
The adventure continues.
I do have better info on my father's side of the family. My paternal great grandparents came to the US in the 1880s from Germany on the ship Amsterdam. They are from Hessen, Germany. His mother's family was from Ireland and I'm digging for more on them.
How are you sure she was never adopted? You said either fostered or adopted when you started the thread 3 days ago.
What exactly do you mean about her siblings? This is the first your posting where you sound sure that you have their names when it doesn't sound like you did when you originally posted or commented.
You may end up having a decent DNA match to a relative of her siblings, or even one of her siblings. You won't know unless you test.
My mother was placed in a home for children - and on the census report showing her and her siblings there (she was 11) they are described as 'wards.' She was not adopted, to my knowledge, because she relayed to me how when she was 18 her foster parents told her they weren't going to receive any more $$ for her. (paid as foster parents?) I never knew the foster 'grandparents' well at all since we moved to Central America when I was in the 6th grade and my mother never maintained a relationship with them. I know she was incredibly hurt by her abandonment and the foster arrangement when she realized/felt they only took her in for $$.
So that is my mistake suggesting she was adopted.
I only know a couple of her siblings names.
I'll keep at it and if I am unable to find her birth parents names, will try that DNA test.
Do you have info from her siblings? Have you been able to follow their paper trails back? I broke a brick wall this past year by ordering an ancestor's social security records. It was an expensive record, but ended up being entirely worth it.
My mother was placed in a home for children - and on the census report showing her and her siblings there (she was 11) they are described as 'wards.' She was not adopted, to my knowledge, because she relayed to me how when she was 18 her foster parents told her they weren't going to receive any more $$ for her. (paid as foster parents?) I never knew the foster 'grandparents' well at all since we moved to Central America when I was in the 6th grade and my mother never maintained a relationship with them. I know she was incredibly hurt by her abandonment and the foster arrangement when she realized/felt they only took her in for $$.
So that is my mistake suggesting she was adopted.
I only know a couple of her siblings names.
I'll keep at it and if I am unable to find her birth parents names, will try that DNA test.
Since she wasn't adopted at birth, it's highly likely her birth certificate will include her parents' names. It should be easy to get her DC from California, and then her BC from New York. I think if you specify you don't want certified copies, you only want them for genealogical purposes, it will be cheaper and faster (may only apply to DC). If, like your father, she had recent immigrant ancestry, using DNA could be very difficult. Still today I have no good DNA matches on my maternal side in Ancestry.
And yes, foster parents are paid by the state until the child turns 18. All those abandoned and orphaned kids don't get taken in otherwise. I also have known biological parents who kick their kids out of the home when they turn 18 or graduate high school. Kids are expensive.
Does that census use their last names? Start there.
I helped a 2nd C find her people ... incl siblings placed in care (and on a census).
On Ancestry they have some very robust search features.
Enter a name, a location, a birth year ...and you're off.
But you still gotta do the work.
I have a couple of names and ages, I guess I could 'guess' birth year....I do need to become more familiar with the search features of Ancestry. Don't feel like I'm doing well in that regard. but I plug away.
Since she wasn't adopted at birth, it's highly likely her birth certificate will include her parents' names. It should be easy to get her DC from California, and then her BC from New York. I think if you specify you don't want certified copies, you only want them for genealogical purposes, it will be cheaper and faster (may only apply to DC). If, like your father, she had recent immigrant ancestry, using DNA could be very difficult. Still today I have no good DNA matches on my maternal side in Ancestry.
And yes, foster parents are paid by the state until the child turns 18. All those abandoned and orphaned kids don't get taken in otherwise. I also have known biological parents who kick their kids out of the home when they turn 18 or graduate high school. Kids are expensive.
This is helpful info Aries.. re not needing certified copies. I will start with CA death cert.
I'll only do the DNA testing if I can't find her parents' names.
Interestingly enough...I found someone on Ancestry who had a tree that appeared related to my paternal grandfather. I sent him a message and come to find out, he had a granduncle who was married to my great grandfather's sister - and that great grandfather was my paternal grandmother's father.
I found someone on Ancestry who had a tree that appeared related to my paternal grandfather.
I sent him a message and come to find out.
Now you can start building out your tree. A leaf and a branch at a time.
But be sure to back up the verbal with the official documents (census, DSS, etc)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
