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Appreciate all the comments. I'm having my sister take one more look at any of my Mother's documentation that she may still have on hand. NY wants a death cert but I'm not sure she has that, either (if she has the BC then I don't need to send away and pay for one.....or be told one can't be located?)
Gonna consider that DNA kit!
You can also order a copy of the death certificate. That will make the process lengthier, but I would do this first before doing DNA. Don't get me wrong, DNA is a valuable tool, especially when documents are hard to find or just don't exist, but using DNA to break down brick walls in your tree is a skill that requires the right knowledge. While I'm sure you're capable of that, it can be a lot of work, and for someone new to this, it would probably be a lot easier to just order the right documents, however long that takes.
DNA can still be useful even if you don't use it for this though, and if you're serious about researching your tree, I don't think you should let your husband's paranoia stop you. It's not his DNA, not his decision.
I just pulled out my father's Florida death certificate to see if his parents' are named. Yes, my father's parents are listed on his death certificate. My great-grandfather's NYC death certificate names his parents as well.
So I would get a death certificate first.
NYC is very fuss about requiring a death certificate before issuing a birth certificate.
My sister did DNA testing and didn't find out anything.
Usually they are named on the DC but I think the OP is saying there's some mystery as to who the mother's biological parents were, which seems to suggest it was unknown at the time she died and wouldn't have been available to put on her DC.
Don't put the cart before the horse. If you can obtain her BC naming her birth parents then that could be sufficient, you won't need a DNA test. Not everyone gets lucky with DNA tests. Depends what you're searching for. But it is always better to lay the groundwork of collecting and searching for as many documents and records as possible before jumping into a DNA test. The more information you gather ahead of time, the easier it will be to interpret your DNA results. That includes information about your father's side, which will help you distinguish from relatives on your mother's side.
Also, don't forget to search family trees in Ancestry. Since your mother is deceased, she may be in someone's family tree, although the accuracy of family trees is highly variable.
I disagree, especially since it sounds like her mother may have been given up for foster care or adoption. Am I remembering wrong that you were adopted? IIRC you were lucky to have found your bio mother without the DNA, the DNA did confirm the relationships you found.
Also I doubt any information will be on the death certificate because it sounds like nobody knew anything about her mothers life such as parents names.
I also disagree about following paper trails because a lot of people lied about who a biological father or parent was. I can't count how many people regularly post in DNA detectives that they did their DNA to find their birth certificate father was not their biological father, or that they were adopted, maybe adopted by their step parent.
The DNA test is cheap at $59, IMO why wouldn't someone do it? It is not hard to figure out matches, especially these days since ancestry is so large. If she knows paternal matches, all the rest not marked paternal should be on her mothers side. She may end up finding a sibling of her mother or even a half aunt or uncle on either side. Who knows, she may find out she has a sibling who was given up for adoption before her mother had her.
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Originally Posted by YorktownGal
I just pulled out my father's Florida death certificate to see if his parents' are named. Yes, my father's parents are listed on his death certificate. My great-grandfather's NYC death certificate names his parents as well.
So I would get a death certificate first.
NYC is very fuss about requiring a death certificate before issuing a birth certificate.
My sister did DNA testing and didn't find out anything.
Did you sister know what to look for with her DNA results/matches? Was she able to say what match was via one parent, plus both grandparents with no secrets? To what cousin level did she do this for (1st, 2nd, 3rd)?
Did your sister upload to my heritage?
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Originally Posted by PA2UK
You can also order a copy of the death certificate. That will make the process lengthier, but I would do this first before doing DNA. Don't get me wrong, DNA is a valuable tool, especially when documents are hard to find or just don't exist, but using DNA to break down brick walls in your tree is a skill that requires the right knowledge. While I'm sure you're capable of that, it can be a lot of work, and for someone new to this, it would probably be a lot easier to just order the right documents, however long that takes.
DNA can still be useful even if you don't use it for this though, and if you're serious about researching your tree, I don't think you should let your husband's paranoia stop you. It's not his DNA, not his decision.
I agree that she shouldn't let her husbands paranoia stop her from doing DNA.
I disagree, she should buy the test now while it's $59, next sale won't be for another few months.
Depending on what kind of matches she will have, you never know one of them can get sick and die, which means they won't ever connect with the match and information they may know, especially if it's a 1st or 2nd cousin that knows the mothers biological family and why the mother chose to walk away from them.
With ancestry's new side view tool, it is pretty easy for newbies to work on their DNA matches, plus she comes here or can go on one of the Facebook groups that will hold her hand. She can even get a free search angel who can help her with her DNA results. If she ends up buying the test I will leave links for her so that she can see what she will have to do with matches at ancestry when her DNA is processed. It is a lot easier to figure out now then when I did it over 6 years ago. I managed to figure out my matches at ancestry not knowing I even had relatives in the US as both of my parents were supposedly the first to immigrate here which was not true, both of my mothers parents had siblings here. I have a decent amount of 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins on her side. I even have one on my dad's paternal side on ancestry and at my heritage I have a lot of my fathers matches who still live in various European countries.
She can even get a free search angel who can help her with her DNA results.
Agreed. I mentioned earlier being contacted by a 3rd cousin. She allowed me to copy the tree she had.
I still had to go through and verify (a LOT!) ... and change/edit to 'personalize it some.
But it still wasn't anywhere near complete enough to meet MY needs.*
Being a bit OCD about details and loose ends I also did a lot of work o another cousins tree for my adopted family;
my grandmothers people especially. That tree has grown a lot. Sample from HER mothers 'fact sheet' below.
*Because of MD and DC adoption privacy rules I've had to continue to flesh out the Angel's tree ...
it's now at 6400 people vs the (mostly distant cousin) 40,000 dna matches.
All to ferret out which men (declared/known/etc) were in the age range and where they were at the mo/yr. Tedious.
Then there's ferreting out the Q's ... like the other adoptee's
Also, don't forget to search family trees in Ancestry. Since your mother is deceased, she may be in someone's family tree, although the accuracy of family trees is highly variable.
If that's the case, it's probably the adoptive family, not the genetic one.
I disagree, especially since it sounds like her mother may have been given up for foster care or adoption. Am I remembering wrong that you were adopted? IIRC you were lucky to have found your bio mother without the DNA, the DNA did confirm the relationships you found.
Well we don't know enough yet from the OP. If the mother didn't go into foster care until 10 years old, then her parents' names are likely on her BC.
I found my birth mother through DNA because I had a closed adoption and no records, although I knew the surname I was born with. Even so, it took two years to figure it out with DNA. But I've known people who turn to DNA first thinking it will answer their questions, only to find out later that they had the answer under their noses already but didn't think to look at it. Or they could have requested information they weren't aware of.
Last year, NY opened original BCs for adoptees, so if I had waited I would have found out who she was that way. Would have saved me a lot of money and headaches and hundreds of hours working with DNA.
Any search angel would agree that you should gather all the documents available to you first, before searching with DNA. I have been a search angel for a number of other adoptees, and there's nothing more frustrating than working with someone who is too lazy to request the information that they're legally entitled to. It can really throw off the search.
I also disagree about following paper trails because a lot of people lied about who a biological father or parent was. I can't count how many people regularly post in DNA detectives that they did their DNA to find their birth certificate father was not their biological father, or that they were adopted, maybe adopted by their step parent.
Did you sister know what to look for with her DNA results/matches? Was she able to say what match was via one parent, plus both grandparents with no secrets? To what cousin level did she do this for (1st, 2nd, 3rd)?
Did your sister upload to my heritage?
These are interesting questions.
All my family immigrated to the US after 1900 so a family tree is easy. My parents, aunts and uncles never did the DNA testing. Only my sister and my great-aunt, Lottie's grandson did the test. They are the only results. Although, my brother-in-law's testing came up with much more.
I get so pi**ed off with public trees on Ancestry. Users list my relatives on their trees with absolutely no connection. I've messaged people to explain their mistakes - similar surname with different religion/ethnicity, census with a similar surname, but different children's names and ages, misspelling names, etc. They acknowledge it's wrong, but never change their trees. Imagine that if you don't double check everything, those trees can throw you off the track.
I get so pi**ed off with public trees on Ancestry.
Users list my relatives on their trees with absolutely no connection.
I've messaged people to explain their mistakes ...
I've never received one of these but I probably deserve a couple of them.
In my efforts of 'casting to the wind' I'll add a possible and then chase it down for records.
It mostly works out well but I have neglected to go back and edit out some of those bad ones.
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They acknowledge it's wrong, but never change their trees.
Yeah, I write to people all the time to ask or comment... few seem to care.
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Imagine that if you don't double check everything...
This probably applies to most of the trees out there ... low information people limited to copy & paste.
I disagree, she should buy the test now while it's $59, next sale won't be for another few months.
I didn't say she shouldn't, only that she shouldn't take the DNA test instead of ordering the records. If she wants to also do the DNA test, then yes, order it now while it's on sale. However, it's also not a disaster if she waits for the next sale - which will likely be Valentine's Day, which is not that far away.
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Depending on what kind of matches she will have, you never know one of them can get sick and die, which means they won't ever connect with the match and information they may know, especially if it's a 1st or 2nd cousin that knows the mothers biological family and why the mother chose to walk away from them.
I guess that's always possible, but what are the chances of the only person who has answers would just happen to die in the next few months? Even if the OP bought the test today, it wouldn't arrive for possibly a couple weeks, and then of course she has to send the sample back and wait for lab processing, which at this time of year will likely take a few months anyway. There's always a chance of unfortunate timing, but it seems a little like fear mongering to put that idea in people's heads like if they can't get their results tomorrow all will be lost.
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With ancestry's new side view tool, it is pretty easy for newbies to work on their DNA matches, plus she comes here or can go on one of the Facebook groups that will hold her hand.
It's still more work, especially for a beginner. Not saying she shouldn't do that, but it's something she should be aware of before deciding to completely abandon ordering the records that will include what she's looking for with far less work. Too many people take the DNA test, expecting it to provide their family tree already laid out for them and get frustrated when they realize, no, they still have to put the work into it, especially when they don't have the records to work off of. Using DNA it build your tree when you don't have a paper trail is even harder, so if there's a paper trail available, even if it means ordering copies by mail, I would strongly recommend that first. I don't think it's wise to recommend people don't order vital records... they are called vital records for a reason.
Following all these comments and advice!! thanks to all taking the time to give feedback.
My sister can't find either Mom's birth or death certificate. I will pursue getting a death cert from California.
My mother was fostered, not adopted, I do know that. I remember the names of her foster parents but have no B-days....I'll look for them anyway to see what I can find. She lived with them for 7 or 8 yrs.
I do have her birth cert number (NY) because it's on the census record for the home where she was (with siblings BTW) but not sure that is going to help me with NY records.
The adventure continues.
I do have better info on my father's side of the family. My paternal great grandparents came to the US in the 1880s from Germany on the ship Amsterdam. They are from Hessen, Germany. His mother's family was from Ireland and I'm digging for more on them.
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