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Old 07-23-2018, 12:21 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
This was never a consideration.
In fact A GREAT DEAL of Russians don't want any "return of Soviet territories," because the opinion among them is persistent that during Soviet times Russia was subsidizing most of them, Ukraine including.
The debate is never-ending on this one, so no plans of "annexing former Soviet blocks countries" whatever that means.
They seem to be okay with subsidizing Crimea, Abkhazia, Transnistra etc.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:25 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Russia's economy is stumbling some, but not nearly as close to detrimental as many were thinking when the sanctions took place. The sanctions allowed a chance for Russia to start many domestic industries that otherwise were not worth the cost when competing with already established imports.

Russia also has a large black market economy, one that is credited with Russia's surprising quick recovery from the 1990's economic crisis.

There is still a demand for employees in many sectors, mostly service of course. About anyone can go to Russia (legally and illegally) and find work right away.
You might not believe me but this winter my aunt moved from Moscow to Kiev for the same salary but much lower cost of living.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:28 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,818,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
They seem to be okay with subsidizing Crimea, Abkhazia, Transnistra etc.
Because many feel Crimea is and always has been part of Russia, roots dating to imperial Russia of course. Most could not care less about the other two, except for maybe Abkhazia as there is a bit "eff you" to Georgia about it.

But there are no desire for former republics, the Russian SSR was hevaily subsidizing central Asian republics, so much so that when the USSR dissolved, central Asia approached Russia about a "new USSR' which Russia declined as central Asia was a heavy drag during the entire Soviet period. No one has any thoughts about grabbing up these former Soviet areas.

The only other area people have thoughts on is eastern Ukraine, it has been that way since 1991. The issues in Ukraine now started even before the USSR dissolved, it started when communist leadership drew the borders of the USSR.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:30 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,818,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
You might not believe me but this winter my aunt moved from Moscow to Kiev for the same salary but much lower cost of living.
I can believe because Moscow is stupidly expensive, lol.

But for many, many people in Ukraine, they go to Russia to work, usually they work for a short period of time then take the train back. They can be nannies, work watching some old person, construction labor, drivers, etc. I even have several relatives in Russia now doing this, they will return by the time school starts for their kids.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:32 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Russia's GDP fell by 42% in just 3 years from 2013 to 2016. It would appear that this kind of economic instability can lead to political instability.

Does Vladimir Putin's expansionist ambitions stem from the fact that he believes that annexing former Soviet bloc countries will return Russia to its former glory?
Actually economic instability is how he consolidates power. He controls the country's economy so access to Russia's reserves goes through him. This keeps his oligarchs loyal. Any form of opposition creeping up is blamed for the economic troubles. America is at fault, since America imposed the sanctions (said every dictator since 1950s).

Former glory is another issue. The current generation in power there is quite angry about how things turned out since their younger days. They are very upset after decades of decline both economic and demographic has turned them into a regional bully from the superpower days. Italy is more important to the world economy than Russia...
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:38 PM
 
501 posts, read 303,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
The deal seems to be that Syria gets back the Golan Heights from Israel and Iran advisors and soldiers leave Syria.
Huh? No. Syria does not get back the Golan Heights from Israel. Where did you get THAT from?
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:47 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Because many feel Crimea is and always has been part of Russia, roots dating to imperial Russia of course. Most could not care less about the other two, except for maybe Abkhazia as there is a bit "eff you" to Georgia about it.

But there are no desire for former republics, the Russian SSR was hevaily subsidizing central Asian republics, so much so that when the USSR dissolved, central Asia approached Russia about a "new USSR' which Russia declined as central Asia was a heavy drag during the entire Soviet period. No one has any thoughts about grabbing up these former Soviet areas.

The only other area people have thoughts on is eastern Ukraine, it has been that way since 1991. The issues in Ukraine now started even before the USSR dissolved, it started when communist leadership drew the borders of the USSR.
No disagreement there. Ukraine's eastern border has been more or less the same for a while now. It used to be quite valuable due to coal and iron deposits but that isn't anymore valueable to Russia now as western Pennsylvania is valuable to the USA now. Ex-soviet Rust belt has little to offer the modern world. T

The people living there were more loyal to Moscow than Kiev that is for sure. Now? Not so much...However a referendum in Ukraine on Donbass independence could actually win, as long as its on the current lines. The current situation has many pro Ukrainian Donetsk residents living in places like Mariupol while some pro Russians have moved to Russian controlled side. The rest of the country has low enthusiasm for keeping these areas as a drag on their country's potential. I believe Putin is floating this very idea. It won't work though if it looks like Russia will annex them, because they don't want to give Russia any prizes for its aggression. The 1953 borders look to be where things are going to settle on.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:54 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
They seem to be okay with subsidizing Crimea, Abkhazia, Transnistra etc.
Those places directly support geopolitical interests of Russia, so it's a different story.
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,566 posts, read 28,665,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I do not know, the US also freaked out over some missiles getting installed in Cuba...
Yes, but that was during the height of the cold war and those were nuclear missiles deployed by the Soviet Union just 90 miles off the U.S. coast. In modern times, I would think there's an understanding that NATO's main purpose is to serve as a deterrence to war, not as an act of aggression.

No NATO country is stupid enough to attack Russia, and Russia is not stupid enough to attack any NATO country.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:11 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I can believe because Moscow is stupidly expensive, lol.

But for many, many people in Ukraine, they go to Russia to work, usually they work for a short period of time then take the train back. They can be nannies, work watching some old person, construction labor, drivers, etc. I even have several relatives in Russia now doing this, they will return by the time school starts for their kids.
I have an aquaintance whos mother recently moved back to her home viillage around Chernigov because she simply could not afford to live in Kiev. Retirees in ukraine are being forced to live 3 to 5 in a single room in some places. Her son was able to purchase an old home for her in her home village. She's in her early 70s, there is no hospitals or anything like that close.

Ukraine is no bed of roses and it seems Erasure noting one of the conditions Uraine needs to meet is the disappearence of the less able bodied and aged.
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