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Old 05-27-2018, 03:58 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Russian SSBN Yuri Dolgorkyu launching Bulava missiles. The 2nd missile almost doesn't make it. Launching missiles from under water is not easy.
It's easy for the USA, we do it all the time.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:28 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
It's easy for the USA, we do it all the time.
Ummmm. Yeah right. We do test our missiles but at the cost of 70 million each they're not shooting them off all the time. I think there's been 2 test firings in the last 20 years, 2001 and 2012 concerning the life extension program. I believe those launches were no more than 2 missiles.

In the Berents sea about a decade ago the Russians loosed an entire load off a Borei class sub. 16 missiles. It's the only time in histroy it's been done by any power. They did discover that with all the missiles popping out of their tubes it's real hard to keep the boat stable. It has a tendency to start to rock and roll.

Really, you must love Hollywood too.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
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a bit off topic ...

Does Russia keep track of metropolitan/urban area populations? Most countries seem too, but I can't find anything for Russia? I know that Russian cities tend to cover the entire urban area and don't really have any suburbs, but I still think that all the surrounding towns right on the edge would add up. For instance Novosibirsk with an estimated 2017 population of 1,602,915 has a city right on it's edge (Berdsk) with an estimated 2017 population of 103,290. Just adding these two up would increase the total population up to 1,706,205 and then if you were to add up all the other villages and towns perhaps it would go up to 1,800,000 people. Or would you say that Berdsk is a completely independent town with it's own employment base?

Now that being said I think Russian cities give a pretty good representation of the population size of the metropolitan area, even if it it's off by 10% or 20%, so why is it that Russia has so few major cities (for me a major city needs to have at least 2 million people in the metro area), Russia only has two, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Now sure Russia's population is stretched thin and there are many medium sized cities with over a million people (15 cities), but compared to other similarly sized countries (population wise) it's not very impressive. Japan has 8 metropolitan areas with more than 2 million people and 13 over 1 million. Mexico has 4 metropolitan areas with over 2 million people with a 5th one almost there and Mexico has 11 metropolitan areas with over 1 million people.

Now sure maybe it's because Moscow is freaking huge (12,380,664 people) and you could split it up into 6 cities with over 2 million people, but Tokyo has an even more impressive size of 37,273,866 in it's metro area which could be split up into 18 cities with over 2 million people!! And Mexico city is no slouch either with 20,137,152 people living in it's metro area. So I don't think Moscow's size is the issue here. The issue her is the fact that Russia has a large rural population, only
74% of the Russian population is urban, compared to Mexico's 79.2% and Japan's 93.5%. The question though is does Russia need such a large rural population, and does it benefit Russia's economy? (Urbanization by country) But I'm not sure this is the whole picture since if you look at countries by the total urban population Russia still has more than Mexico, (Russia: 106,643,000, Mexico: 100,656,000) yet Mexico still manages to have more major cities (> 2 million) and has a larger largest city. So it seems like most of Russia's urban population in fact doesn't live in large urban cities but in smaller ones. So lets do a break down by category.

> 10 million
Mexico 1, Russia 1
4 - 10 million
Mexico 2, Russia 1
2 - 4 million
Mexico 1, Russia 0
1 - 2 million
Mexico 7, Russia 13
0.5 - 1 million
Mexico 20, Russia 22

So it seems like Russia has an over representation of the 1 million sized cities, do you think this is a good or bad thing? It seems that larger sized cities generate more wealth and more efficiently, but perhaps with Russia's immense size it's best that Russia has many medium sized cities evenly spread out, however these cities are not evenly spread out. The Central Federal District has 2 cities with over 1 million, The Far East has 0, The North Caucuses has 0, The North West has 1, Siberia has 3, The South has 2, The Ural's has another 2, and finally the Volga has an astonishing 5.

One way to alleviate this is to have each oblast/republic only 1 principle city, no small urban cities in the area competing for population, in other words the urban population lives only in one metro area rather than small urban towns and cities far in the outskirts, so theoretically this would be a realistic population distribution. (I got the population of the largest federal subjects and calculated 74% (average urbanity of Russia) of the population allocating to the largest city, also I combined the federal city with the near by oblast/republic)

1. Moscow: 14,803,301
2. St. Petersburg: 5,306,119
3. Krasnodar: 4,144,660 (or perhaps Novorossiysk would be a better position?)
4. Yekaterinburg: 3,200,735
5. Rostov-on-Don: 3,180,001
6. Ufa: 3,007,120
7. Kazan: 2,881,379
8. Tyumen: 2,731,933
9. Chelyabinsk: 2,584,627
10. Nizhny-Novgorod: 2,393,660
11. Samara: 2,362,959
12. Makhachkala: 2,267,651
13. Krasnoyarsk: 2,128,506
14. Stavropol: 2,071,963
15. Novosibirsk: 2,063,930
16. Kemerovo: 1,994,320
17. Perm: 1,994,320
18. Volgograd: 1,865,181
19. Saratov: 1,822,785
20. Irkutsk: 1,778,695
21. Sevastopol: 1,739,334
22. Barnaul: 1,739,267
23. Voronezh: 1,735,684
24. Orenburg: 1,463,309
25. Omsk: 1,450,120
26. Vladivostok: 1,414,967
27. Surgut: 1,224,657
28. Belgorod: 114,719
29. Izhevsk: 1,119,833
30. Tula: 1,104,093

But there would still be plenty of smaller cities for instance Kostroma would have 476,064 people in this scenario, and it's not like they would all live in the same city, just within a commuting distance say 50 km of the city center. From a technical stand point wouldn't this be a much better and efficient population distribution, and even it wasn't 74% but say 60% living within a close range of the major city?

Anyway just something that's been on my mind and thought to share.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:40 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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Russians seem to like to spread out into little clusters just as much as running to big cities. I was just researching a trip down the Volga. I found several power stations/dams that you'd have to somehow get around and some locks. I also noticed there's a lot of little villages along the river and inland from it. Not very big, maybe 10 to 30 houses. Some in very remote places.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:38 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Ummmm. Yeah right. We do test our missiles but at the cost of 70 million each they're not shooting them off all the time. I think there's been 2 test firings in the last 20 years, 2001 and 2012 concerning the life extension program. I believe those launches were no more than 2 missiles.

Really, you must love Hollywood too.
We just tested 2 last month off the coast of California, which I can assure you wasn't the first time in 20 years. The difference between us and Russia is clear here, we don't put these normal events on national TV to promote a false image of strength. No inferiority complex here outside of the White House anyway...

I do love Hollywood. It seems to be normal than the world Russian lovers are living in lately. I heard a nationalist attacked a Repin painting for showing Ivan the Terrible as someone who lived up to his name. Cultural insanity exists there but who can blame them for the lies Putin is pushing down their throats everyday.

Last edited by DKM; 05-27-2018 at 09:58 PM..
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:55 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
a bit off topic ...

Does Russia keep track of metropolitan/urban area populations? Most countries seem too, but I can't find anything for Russia?

Now that being said I think Russian cities give a pretty good representation of the population size of the metropolitan area, even if it it's off by 10% or 20%, so why is it that Russia has so few major cities (for me a major city needs to have at least 2 million people in the metro area), Russia only has two, Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Now sure maybe it's because Moscow is freaking huge (12,380,664 people) and you could split it up into 6 cities with over 2 million people..
Yes they do track populations and rate cities according to its size.

Russia is large and has a much lower population density than most countries on earth, especially Japan.
Moscow is the smallest "largest" city of any country in the world with at least 120 million residents. Russia's population is shrinking again so this is unlikely to change anytime soon.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Yes they do track populations and rate cities according to its size.

Russia is large and has a much lower population density than most countries on earth, especially Japan.
Moscow is the smallest "largest" city of any country in the world with at least 120 million residents. Russia's population is shrinking again so this is unlikely to change anytime soon.
I'm aware that they track cities, there is a simple wiki page of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

The question is if they track metropolitan populations, you know when you combine all of the suburbs together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_area

If you look at the list for largest metro areas in Europe, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus contain no data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...reas_in_Europe

And no Russia's population has stopped shrinking, and even then many of the rural population is moving into cities still so the Urban population is still growing as can be testified by many of Russia's cities having huge population growth rates such as Tyumen growing at +27.95% since 2010. Tyumen had 581,907 people in 2010 vs 744,554 in 2017. Though of course there are many that are shrinking such as Tula which shrunk by −3.18%, Tula had 501,169 people in 2010 and in 2017 had 485,221 people. Speaking about urban population, Russia is number 7, ahead of countries such as Nigeria, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, all of which have a larger total population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ban_population

But again I'm more interested to know if Russia keeps track of metropolitan areas or not?
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,231,086 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I heard a nationalist attacked a Repin painting for showing Ivan the Terrible as someone who lived up to his name. Cultural insanity exists there but who can blame them for the lies Putin is pushing down their throats everyday.
You do not understand Russia. But you hate Putin and try to mention him always and everywhere.

This is not first attack. First attack on the painting was still 100 years ago, in 1913. Repin was still alive and helped restore the picture.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._vandalizm.gif

Art evokes emotions. Russians overdo their emotions sometimes.

But you can continue to blame Putin. And to draw wrong conclusions.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:28 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
We just tested 2 last month off the coast of California, which I can assure you wasn't the first time in 20 years. The difference between us and Russia is clear here, we don't put these normal events on national TV to promote a false image of strength. No inferiority complex here outside of the White House anyway...

I do love Hollywood. It seems to be normal than the world Russian lovers are living in lately. I heard a nationalist attacked a Repin painting for showing Ivan the Terrible as someone who lived up to his name. Cultural insanity exists there but who can blame them for the lies Putin is pushing down their throats everyday.
No video? It didn't happen.
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Old 05-28-2018, 12:26 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
A little history lesson.

https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...s-intervention
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