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Old 11-12-2020, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
You do realize that both grega and erasure are Russian.
Well that depends on your definition. I was born in the US and have never visited Russia (but I can speak it thanks to my parents), so I can understand if somebody living in Russia doesn't consider me to be one. Also about half my heritage (if not more) is Ukrainian so there is that too But yeah Russia and Russians have a special place in my heart, even if I've never been there before. I only criticize her because I know she can be better, it just pains me to see so much potential being under utilized.
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Old 11-13-2020, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
7,643 posts, read 6,476,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
I have no idea where anyone sees this as a win for Russia. The Azeris smacked Armenia pretty good and forced a truce, Armenia ceded land. Russia is not not only brokering this, but supporting its troops there now, raising possibilities of issues like if the Azeris or Armenians fire upon Russian troops, or Azeri host forces do. The Muslim overture of this situation, which gave the Azeris a win, only furthers motivates radical Muslims who view this as a "Muslim versus..." issue, with the Muslims winning.



I see it has a win for Turkey and strengthens Russia's jihad underbelly
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Old 11-13-2020, 03:40 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,568,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
I have no idea where anyone sees this as a win for Russia. The Azeris smacked Armenia pretty good and forced a truce, Armenia ceded land. Russia is not not only brokering this, but supporting its troops there now, raising possibilities of issues like if the Azeris or Armenians fire upon Russian troops, or Azeri host forces do. The Muslim overture of this situation, which gave the Azeris a win, only furthers motivates radical Muslims who view this as a "Muslim versus..." issue, with the Muslims winning.
It's a win for Azerbaijan, Russia, and probably NATO as well. Turkey with its "moderate" rebel force has been rejected as a peacekeeper.

France is a co-chair of the Minsk Group (along with Russia and the US) and international legitimacy would be crucial for Moscow’s intervention in the conflict, whereas, Turkey needed to be “managed”, given its aspirations as a Black Sea power and its special ties with Azerbaijan.

Erdogan keeps inserting Turkey as peacemaker in the Caucasus (which Moscow is unlikely to concede, given his sponsorship of jihadi groups.)

https://indianpunchline.com/putin-cr...d-in-caucasus/
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Old 11-13-2020, 08:21 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
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Turkey is the Black Sea power. They don't need to be aspirational about it. Armenia just has to accept Russia can't do anything about their loss.
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Old 11-13-2020, 08:36 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
Same as the trollybuses ~ DELAY DELAY DELAY.

They are saying that it might be even worse with electobuses - the charge won't hold/will take longer, there are less of them available, so the picture will be even worse (than yours) during winter season ( if this is even possible.)
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Old 11-13-2020, 09:04 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
I have no idea where anyone sees this as a win for Russia. The Azeris smacked Armenia pretty good and forced a truce, Armenia ceded land. Russia is not not only brokering this, but supporting its troops there now, raising possibilities of issues like if the Azeris or Armenians fire upon Russian troops, or Azeri host forces do. The Muslim overture of this situation, which gave the Azeris a win, only furthers motivates radical Muslims who view this as a "Muslim versus..." issue, with the Muslims winning.
While listening more and more to Russian news in details, I happen to lean more towards your opinion.

While for the time being Russia's position looks good ( and as the only position/approach that should be pursued under the circumstances,) I see the clouds on the horizon, because it makes Russia ( being the only peace-keeping force) very vulnerable.

#1 - I don't see Turkey ( emboldened by its unified success with Azerbaijan) quitting its attempts to grab bigger piece of pie.

and #2 ( which is even worse, since this is more covert danger) the uncertainty of Armenia's political field, where different "parties" represent different forces connected to them, Armenian nationalists first of all including.

The West of course won't stop stocking anti-Russian sentiment among them, and since Armenian diaspora is big, I am the most suspicious by the Lebanese part of it. These people come across as Middle Easterners, related to their Europenized/Russified cousins in the name only, and god knows whom they are connected to.
All this makes situation unpredictable, and puts Russia in very vulnerable position.

But Russian government does everything at this point correctly under the circumstances.

P.S. I take back my previous notion that the ethnic relations between Azeris and Armenians in mixed "gubernias" of the Russian empire were not causing any particular problems.

Indeed they were, during Tzarist times and after, with this being one of the worst massacres apparently, before the Sumgait events back in the 80ies.

Shusha massacre 1920.

"According to Richard Hovannisian, "Azerbaijani troops, joined by the city's Azerbaijani inhabitants, turned Armenian Shushi into an inferno. From March 23 to 26, some 2,000 structures were consumed in the flames, including the churches and consistory, cultural institutions, schools, libraries, the business section and the grand homes of the merchant class. Bishop Vahan (Ter-Grigorian), long an advocate of accommodation with the Azerbaijani authorities, paid the price of retribution, as his tongue was torn out before his head was cut off and paraded through the streets on a spike. The chief of police, Avetis Ter-Ghukasian, was turned into a human torch, and many intellectuals were among the 500 Armenian victims".[2]"


Sounds all too familiar.


So currently Armenians are leaving the area en mass.
They are given the safe passage to leave the negotiated districts in 7 days, although they are reminded that back in the nineties they didn't give any "safe passage" to Azeris to leave, and massacred them all.

At the end I suspect it WILL turn into the religious conflict after all, as "secular" as Baku remains on the surface for now.

Last edited by erasure; 11-13-2020 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 11-14-2020, 08:31 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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I think this will be bad for Russia. The conflict will continue on some level. Guerilla warfare, acts of terrorism. The outside powers, Turkey, NATO will not allow peace.

The only way Russia is going to solve anything is to become the oppressor and a harsh one at that. They will have to seal the countries off too.

This isn't over yet.
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:49 AM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Departing Armenians are burning their houses...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M4su9nweGo

and muslims are returning to the area with their first *adhan.*


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_Z_IwxwiA

That's the way I perceive the whole situation.

Last edited by erasure; 11-14-2020 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:39 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Well that depends on your definition. I was born in the US and have never visited Russia (but I can speak it thanks to my parents), so I can understand if somebody living in Russia doesn't consider me to be one. Also about half my heritage (if not more) is Ukrainian so there is that too But yeah Russia and Russians have a special place in my heart, even if I've never been there before. I only criticize her because I know she can be better, it just pains me to see so much potential being under utilized.

I've been all over this planet and have been to Russia many times. I was born and raised in America and I've always been a inquisitive person trying to figure out why things are the way they are.

You really need to go to Russia and spend some time there. While Russia has much in common with America you'll find in ways it's vastly different. Russia isn't a failed state, it's not a bad place to live a life.
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:49 AM
 
617 posts, read 538,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turist View Post
Yes, these stupid Russians can do nothing but corruption, theft and show-off.As they only dared to remove outdated electric transport and replace it with transport of the 21st century. This is definitely theft and corruption, how else )))))

I'm 99% sure there were billions of Rubles stolen during this "upgrade", current Russian state power has shown multiple times complete absence of any moral standards or law obedience - they exchanged "шило на мыло". Trolleys were already 21st century, now they have to buy and recycle all those batteries, which is freaking expensive, pretty sure more expensive than just maintaining simple electric wires.
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