General Wesley Clark - John McCain "Untested and Untried" (patriot, president)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
An election is a contrast between two folks, Clark ain't running against McCain.
But Obama is.
McCain was a military officer and an admired hero (except by some who don't comprehend the military experience), and Obama was neither.
Does this help clarify the comparison?
Senator McCain is running as a military and foreign affairs expert. That is his characterization of himself. As a military member, he was an unsuccessful pilot, was captured, spent years of his service being tortured in a prison, and was still passed over for promotion so he got out. Personally, I know lots and lots and lots of passed over officers who are not, I repeat not, qualified to be president of the US based on their military service.
What does this have to do with Senator Obama? This is a Military General, of exemplary education and extended experience challenging a candidate on his primary platform.
Because your own posting starts out with
John McCain "Untested and Untried"
So if I dont vote for McCain because he is untested and untried, I need to look at the opponent, Obama.. who is even less untested and even less untried. So if your posting is going to hold any relevant argument, that McCain is "untested and untried", then I need an alternative to vote for. Sorry, but Obama has the same problem..
Senator McCain is running as a military and foreign affairs expert. That is his characterization of himself. As a military member, he was an unsuccessful pilot, was captured, spent years of his service being tortured in a prison, and was still passed over for promotion so he got out. Personally, I know lots and lots and lots of passed over officers who are not, I repeat not, qualified to be president of the US based on their military service.
Hardly an unsuccessful military career. Any idea what it takes to successfully complete pilot training? Also, heading up a military organization isn't minimal achievement either
By late 1974, McCain had recuperated to the point where he was able to regain ("barely," as he put it) his cherished flight status. He took over as executive officer, and eventually commanding officer, for a group that trained aircraft carrier pilots at Cecil Field in Jacksonville.
Let's see, and Obama has mastered the art of voting "present" during voting issues.
John McCain is a decent chap, who deserves "hero" status for what he endured. That, and $2 gets him a cuppa coffee at Starbucks. For Clark, and the rest of us, the question is: HOW does "HERO" qualify John McCain, or any veteran, for high office?
Hero worship is for teeny girls who scream and throw their undies at Elvis.
Envision the issue as a person standing on the south rim of the grand canyon and wanting to be on the north rim, miles across. On the south rim are thousands of HEROs and on the north rim are a handful of PRESIDENTs. Between those two rims is a gaping chasm. That gaping canyon represents WHATEVER it is that are the qualifications it would take to make John (or anyone) worthy of being President. How does John or anyone qualify to get to the other side.
Question is: Just WHAT does it take to fill the gaping chasm and walk to the oval office on the other side?
On the McCain side, do these aspects fill that canyon?:
- Being a child of privilege which got him into the prestigious Naval Academy on Daddy's connections. Graduated very low, as he had conflicts with higher-ups, and was disinclined to obey every rule, which contributed to a low class rank (894th out of 899).
- Dumping a magnificent, strong wife and running around on her like some sort of drunken sailor.
- Marrying a rich Miss Hottie and running for office on her daddy's money.
- Was deeply involved (with 4 other Senators) in the Keating Five scandal, where he sought to stop Federal authorities from seizing Lincoln Saving & Loan. He received a Senate "rebuke" for that fiasco. (Typical GOP crap to protect the guilty rich who steal us blind.)
On the Obama side, do these aspects fill that canyon?:
- Made his own way through life, no rich daddy or family ties. He did on his own initiative. Isn't that the "classic" American success story.
- Outstanding academic achievement. Selected as an editor of Harvard Law Review based on grades and a writing competition. He earned it, none of Daddy's influence here. Became first black PRESIDENT of Harvard Law Review. Graduated MAGNA C-U-M LAUDE from Harvard!
- Taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School - for 12 years!
- Worked down at street level on the "South Side" of Chicago to improve the life of people in his city. He joined a church-based community organization originally of 8 Catholic parishes and accomplishments included helping set up a job training program, a college prep tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization.
- Worked with Republican Governor Ryan to curb abuses in payday loans and predatory mortgage lending, to achieve better regulations aimed at averting home foreclosures.
IMO, there is no contest here. John McCain is another George Bush, a child of privilege who has no idea that the bulk of us out here deserve one hell of a lot better than we are getting from our Presidents. My money and vote go to Obama.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 06-29-2008 at 03:29 PM..
There's millions of hero's. They climb trees and save cats, carry folks out of buildings, heck even stop their cars at night and give lifts to folks who have run out of gas. They're teachers and soldiers, emt's and firemen, police officers, social workers and soldiers.
What does hero status have to do with Foreign Policy Experience and leadership ability?
Ooh, if McCain has little leadership ability, somebody needs to change Barry's diaper then. I mean McCain's POW status may not help him with foreign policy but at least he made life and death decisions while dropping ordinance on Vietnam. Whatever your feelings on Vietnam, the man made decisions that affected whether other human beings lived or died. Compare this to Obama who said, ‘‘Probably the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact I spent four years overseas when I was a child in Southeast Asia,’’. Wow, those are some major league credentials there Mr. Junior Senator. We all know about Obama's poor judgement of character as witnessed in the Trinity United fiasco, the Tony Rezko debacle, as well as "connection" with domestic terrorist dirtbag Bill Ayers. So, we know the O has stronggggg foreign policy creds as well as the ability to associate with true scum. I know thats a new kind of politics.
Ooh, if McCain has little leadership ability, somebody needs to change Barry's diaper then. I mean McCain's POW status may not help him with foreign policy but at least he made life and death decisions while dropping ordinance on Vietnam. Whatever your feelings on Vietnam, the man made decisions that affected whether other human beings lived or died. Compare this to Obama who said, ‘‘Probably the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact I spent four years overseas when I was a child in Southeast Asia,’’. Wow, those are some major league credentials there Mr. Junior Senator. We all know about Obama's poor judgement of character as witnessed in the Trinity United fiasco, the Tony Rezko debacle, as well as "connection" with domestic terrorist dirtbag Bill Ayers. So, we know the O has stronggggg foreign policy creds as well as the ability to associate with true scum. I know thats a new kind of politics.
Oh sure, like the McCain advisor, a stinking lobbyist, who had to quit when it came to light that he lobbied for the military dictatorship in Burma. Oh yeah, McCain is wonderful. Then there's Mr. Wonderful, George Bush, whose "war" credentials are hiding out in the Air National Guard during Vietnam. Like all jet jocks, Bush deserves a cool radio handle, let's call him Chimpy, eh. John McCain made no "life or death" decisions when he dropped his bombs, it was plain old military performance (aim & squeeze. next!).
Oh sure, like the McCain advisor, a stinking lobbyist, who had to quit when it came to light that he lobbied for the military dictatorship in Burma. Oh yeah, McCain is wonderful. Then there's Mr. Wonderful, George Bush, whose "war" credentials are hiding out in the Air National Guard during Vietnam. Like all jet jocks, Bush deserves a cool radio handle, let's call him Chimpy, eh. John McCain made no "life or death" decisions when he dropped his bombs, it was plain old military performance (aim & squeeze. next!).
Boy, you sure showed me. 2 sentences about McCain, and 2 about..Bush? Well, nice defense of the O, anyway. I guess thats how the new kind of politics works. By the way, I've heard the Kool-aid was sugary-sweet goodness. Also, how did you perform in combat? Was military performance easy to achieve? Its just aim and squeeze, right?
John McCain is a decent chap, who deserves "hero" status for what he endured. That, and $2 gets him a cuppa coffee at Starbucks. For Clark, and the rest of us, the question is: HOW does "HERO" qualify John McCain, or any veteran, for high office?
Hero worship is for teeny girls who scream and throw their undies at Elvis.
Envision the issue as a person standing on the south rim of the grand canyon and wanting to be on the north rim, miles across. On the south rim are thousands of HEROs and on the north rim are a handful of PRESIDENTs. Between those two rims is a gaping chasm. That gaping canyon represents WHATEVER it is that are the qualifications it would take to make John (or anyone) worthy of being President. How does John or anyone qualify to get to the other side.
Question is: Just WHAT does it take to fill the gaping chasm and walk to the oval office on the other side?
On the McCain side, do these aspects fill that canyon?:
- Being a child of privilege which got him into the prestigious Naval Academy on Daddy's connections. Graduated very low, as he had conflicts with higher-ups, and was disinclined to obey every rule, which contributed to a low class rank (894th out of 899).
- Dumping a magnificent, strong wife and running around on her like some sort of drunken sailor.
- Marrying a rich Miss Hottie and running for office on her daddy's money.
- Was deeply involved (with 4 other Senators) in the Keating Five scandal, where he sought to stop Federal authorities from seizing Lincoln Saving & Loan. He received a Senate "rebuke" for that fiasco. (Typical GOP crap to protect the guilty rich who steal us blind.)
On the Obama side, do these aspects fill that canyon?:
- Made his own way through life, no rich daddy or family ties. He did on his own initiative. Isn't that the "classic" American success story.
- Outstanding academic achievement. Selected as an editor of Harvard Law Review based on grades and a writing competition. He earned it, none of Daddy's influence here. Became first black PRESIDENT of Harvard Law Review. Graduated MAGNA C-U-M LAUDE from Harvard!
- Taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School - for 12 years!
- Worked down at street level on the "South Side" of Chicago to improve the life of people in his city. He joined a church-based community organization originally of 8 Catholic parishes and accomplishments included helping set up a job training program, a college prep tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization.
- Worked with Republican Governor Ryan to curb abuses in payday loans and predatory mortgage lending, to achieve better regulations aimed at averting home foreclosures.
IMO, there is no contest here. John McCain is another George Bush, a child of privilege who has no idea that the bulk of us out here deserve one hell of a lot better than we are getting from our Presidents. My money and vote go to Obama.
i tried to rep you again, but you know how that goes... good post
Well now since we are about to have a new war by election day we need to really decide who we want managing three wars in a theater that has how much oil that will be shut down?
President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have rejected findings from U.S. intelligence agencies that Iran has halted a clandestine effort to build a nuclear bomb and "do not want to leave Iran in place with a nuclear program," Hersh said.
"They believe that their mission is to make sure that before they get out of office next year, either Iran is attacked or it stops its weapons program," Hersh said.
The new article, "Preparing the Battlefield," is the latest in a series of articles accusing the Bush administration of preparing for war with Iran. He based the report on accounts from current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources.
Well now since we are about to have a new war by election day we need to really decide who we want managing three wars in a theater that has how much oil that will be shut down?
President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have rejected findings from U.S. intelligence agencies that Iran has halted a clandestine effort to build a nuclear bomb and "do not want to leave Iran in place with a nuclear program," Hersh said.
"They believe that their mission is to make sure that before they get out of office next year, either Iran is attacked or it stops its weapons program," Hersh said.
The new article, "Preparing the Battlefield," is the latest in a series of articles accusing the Bush administration of preparing for war with Iran. He based the report on accounts from current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources.
From CNN
Uh, I'm sure spreading hysteria about Bush starting ANOTHER war gives you your little high for the day, but what does that have to do with John McCain? If I didn't know better, I'd have to cry off-topic...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
