Did John McCain ever drop NAPALM on woman and children? (ethic, represent)
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What exactly don't I have the guts to do? Get shot down? What are the acts of heroisim that I don't have the guts for?
Are you a former military? Until you are in his shoes you wouldnt understand. Why is it so hard for you to call him a hero? He lived in a 8 x 8 box for almost 5 years and never once gave out vital information he knew even under vast torturing of him. That takes guts. Not many would have done what he did.
So now you are making fun of him getting shot down. Someone needs some real help here. Stooping this low only means one thing.
Prior to be shot down did he? I mean if Obama needs to show his birth certificate then McCain needs to answer if he ever dropped napalm as part of his munitions repetoire and who the target was. Did you John? Fess up yes or no is simple and if yes who was the target?
A True Hero of the Vietnam War, Humanity and Country by Rev. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy
NAPALM. The most effective "anti-personnel" weapon, it is euphemistically described as "unfamiliar cooking fluid" by those apologists for American military methods. They automatically attribute all napalm cases to domestic accidents caused by the people using gasoline instead of kerosene in their cooking stoves. Kerosene is far too expensive for the peasants, who normally use charcoal for cooking. The only "cooking fluid" they know is very "unfamiliar" – it is delivered through their roofs by U.S. planes.
Some of its finer selling points were explained to me by a pilot in 1966: "We sure are pleased with those backroom boys at Dow. The original product wasn’t so hot – if the gooks were quick they could scrape it off. So the boys started adding polystyrene – now it sticks like **** to a blanket. But then if the gooks jumped under water it stopped burning, so they started adding Willie Peter (WP – white phosphorous) so’s to make it burn better. It’ll even burn under water now. And just one drop is enough, it’ll keep on burning right down to the bone so they die anyway from phosphorous poisoning."
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12676 (broken link)
McCain knew that what he was doing was wrong. Three months before he fell into that Hanoi lake, he barely survived when his fellow sailors accidentally fired a missile at his plane while it was getting ready to take off from his ship. The blast set off bombs and ordnance across the deck of the aircraft carrier. The conflagration, which took 24 hours to bring under control, killed 132 sailors. A few days later, a shaken McCain told a New York Times reporter in Saigon: "Now that I've seen what the bombs and the napalm did to the people on our ship, I'm not so sure that I want to drop any more of that stuff on North Vietnam."
Yet he did.
"I am a war criminal," McCain said on "60 Minutes" in 1997. "I bombed innocent women and children." Although it came too late to save the Vietnamese he'd killed 30 years earlier, it was a brave statement. Nevertheless, he smiles agreeably as he hears himself described as a "war hero" as he arrives at rallies in a bus marked "No Surrender."
Is this the smoking napalm confession of a mass murderer? No wonder he is willing to bomb Iran and may even use tactical nuclear weapons to accomplish his goal.
Ah there we go Tuborg, I see you took my suggestion afterall, and I thought you were just sticking to McCains character flaws in his divorce with his crippled exwife?
Prior to be shot down did he? I mean if Obama needs to show his birth certificate then McCain needs to answer if he ever dropped napalm as part of his munitions repetoire and who the target was. Did you John? Fess up yes or no is simple and if yes who was the target?
A True Hero of the Vietnam War, Humanity and Country by Rev. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy
NAPALM. The most effective "anti-personnel" weapon, it is euphemistically described as "unfamiliar cooking fluid" by those apologists for American military methods. They automatically attribute all napalm cases to domestic accidents caused by the people using gasoline instead of kerosene in their cooking stoves. Kerosene is far too expensive for the peasants, who normally use charcoal for cooking. The only "cooking fluid" they know is very "unfamiliar" – it is delivered through their roofs by U.S. planes.
Some of its finer selling points were explained to me by a pilot in 1966: "We sure are pleased with those backroom boys at Dow. The original product wasn’t so hot – if the gooks were quick they could scrape it off. So the boys started adding polystyrene – now it sticks like **** to a blanket. But then if the gooks jumped under water it stopped burning, so they started adding Willie Peter (WP – white phosphorous) so’s to make it burn better. It’ll even burn under water now. And just one drop is enough, it’ll keep on burning right down to the bone so they die anyway from phosphorous poisoning."
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12676 (broken link)
McCain knew that what he was doing was wrong. Three months before he fell into that Hanoi lake, he barely survived when his fellow sailors accidentally fired a missile at his plane while it was getting ready to take off from his ship. The blast set off bombs and ordnance across the deck of the aircraft carrier. The conflagration, which took 24 hours to bring under control, killed 132 sailors. A few days later, a shaken McCain told a New York Times reporter in Saigon: "Now that I've seen what the bombs and the napalm did to the people on our ship, I'm not so sure that I want to drop any more of that stuff on North Vietnam."
Yet he did.
"I am a war criminal," McCain said on "60 Minutes" in 1997. "I bombed innocent women and children." Although it came too late to save the Vietnamese he'd killed 30 years earlier, it was a brave statement. Nevertheless, he smiles agreeably as he hears himself described as a "war hero" as he arrives at rallies in a bus marked "No Surrender."
Is this the smoking napalm confession of a mass murderer? No wonder he is willing to bomb Iran and may even use tactical nuclear weapons to accomplish his goal.
Before you ask John McCain... you better ask any veteran if he ever dropped a bomb. Ask the dead ones too. 2500 dead at Pearl Harbor, untold millions dead in gas chambers, who knows how many Kurds, Sudaneze, Somolians, Laosian's, Tibetanese, or Londonaires....
The rules of this forum prevent me from truly speaking my mind, but what a ____!
"I am a war criminal," McCain said on "60 Minutes" in 1997. "I bombed innocent women and children." Although it came too late to save the Vietnamese he'd killed 30 years earlier, it was a brave statement. Nevertheless, he smiles agreeably as he hears himself described as a "war hero" as he arrives at rallies in a bus marked "No Surrender."
I wouldn't consider him a war criminal unless he knowingly killed those women and children. Sometimes it couldn't be helped. But calling them "G**ks" bothers me and he once said that he hated the Vietnamese.
But what is worse is that he is still willing to fight in Iraq using phosphorus on children. Which tells me that he doesn't care if he is considered a war criminal; and he likes being called a hero. I wish that the democrats would stop saying that "he is a hero, but..." Just leave off the Hero because he is no Hero. He is not a compassionate man--far from it.
Are you a former military? Until you are in his shoes you wouldnt understand. Why is it so hard for you to call him a hero? He lived in a 8 x 8 box for almost 5 years and never once gave out vital information he knew even under vast torturing of him. That takes guts. Not many would have done what he did.
So now you are making fun of him getting shot down. Someone needs some real help here. Stooping this low only means one thing.
You mean that I don't buy the spin that being tortured exemplifies why I should vote for you as Commander in Chief at this point in our history with the critical challenge of Iran and a current President who lied to take us to war? Or that his experience was so devestating that it justified him dumping his handicapped wife when he returned. Or that losing five planes exemplifies his qualifications to be President. What about his experience translates into the qualifications he is now claiming?
Before you ask John McCain... you better ask any veteran if he ever dropped a bomb. Ask the dead ones too. 2500 dead at Pearl Harbor, untold millions dead in gas chambers, who knows how many Kurds, Sudaneze, Somolians, Laosian's, Tibetanese, or Londonaires....
The rules of this forum prevent me from truly speaking my mind, but what a ____!
But what discussion the American people need to have at this point in our history
Guess what people? I supported and voted for McCain in 2000 and 2004 and was furious about how Rove and Bush treated him and then how they treated Kerry. I thought Rove was the low of the low and guess what? He now works for McCain and is planning his campaign against Obama! Now that is one heck of a flip flop and needs to be examined as to why and what was said back then and does it have merit. That has caused me to be where I am today about the Senator from Arizona. That being said I guess this treatment is now within the scope of what the good Senator believes is either ok or to be forgiven.
Ah there we go Tuborg, I see you took my suggestion afterall, and I thought you were just sticking to McCains character flaws in his divorce with his crippled exwife?
Hmmm maybe there is a cause and effect here that hopefully is controlled by medication and therapy.
Ok let me approach this from a positive perspective. Many call John McCain a war hero. What are the specific acts of heroism from his Vietnam experience that can give insight into how he will pursue foreign policy and our relationships with a very diverse world. Is there something other then imprisonment that constitutes his heroism? If not how does that imprisonment translate into being our Commander in Chief. I suspect there is much more positive to his war experience other then being a POW. My Googling is not helping me much and this discussion would be enhanced by your contributions.
Ok here is my positive approach what is it other then being shot down and captured that is being used to proclaim his war hero experience to be Commander in Chief. If that is the extent of it fine and it is positive statement about him. Just let us know if that is the beef of it.
Remember I am the one who started the thread congratulating him on having his son in the service in Iraq and saying it spoke volumes about him. How many of you jumped in to say good thread and way to go John? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
You are looking at it from the legal/illegal perspective and the soldier, I am looking at it from the ethical/unethical side and the collateral damage and how in the modern theater that creates anger and willing terrorist to sacrifice their lives to return the pain. The core question will Senator McCain based on his experiences in Vietnam see warfare from a more ethical perspective and try to balance the loss of American lives with the loss of innocent civilians. We are now in the age where revenge is just a plane ticket away. Will we learn about wars justified and unjustified? John McCain was a valiant soldier and followed orders. However he now wants to be Commander in Chief and touts his Vietnam experience as a credential. Thus he has put his military history on the table to be judged for temperment, ethics and learned mistakes. Yes you could retort we don't have that profile on Obama and that would be very accurate and something that is being pointed out by others. Thus the need to weigh each candidates war experience or lack of. I included in my OP that he admited he dropped napalm and the explosion on the carrier gave him the opportunity to witness the horrific effect. Thus giving a possible clue to the question. I find it amazing how so many posters missed that in the article they read didn't they? However I do then highlight the question about his bombing Iran but that is not McCain the soldier but McCain the candidate who did the never to be forgotten rendition of Bomb, Bomb Iran. Thus perhaps McCain the soldier has a different understanding then McCain the politician.
You tried every way there is to show them, Tuborg. They just won't see.
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This has to be the dumbest....
