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It's not so much a growth as the skin is "falling off" leaving behind the raw tissue. The tumor is in the nasal passage and was seen on a rhinoscope. It's so far up there though, it was pretty hard to see. The first thing I noticed when this all started to happen was the top of the nose, the planum, was getting very dried out and seemed to be peeling or crusty. I at first thought he was just perhaps not drinking enough due to age and whatever and his skin was getting drier. Obviously, that was way off! The tumor seems to be pressing on his brain and probably why he is having seizures. He has now started (yesterday) with these little tremors, barely noticed by him, but they make him stumble and if I am not right there he can fall into furniture and bang his already tender nose. He is never alone now, either me or my hubby is there with him all the time now. We just changed our work schedules to fit. This is so hard. He acts so normal for our "whizbang" most of the time, that you wouldn't even know he was sick except for the obvious. I hope these tremor things aren't signaling another drastic change towards what is now becoming the inevitable. I guess we are just further along in the process perhaps then the other photos I have seen posted. I wish we had caught this sooner, although that maybe wouldn't have made much difference. I don't know and that's the worst of all.
It's not so much a growth as the skin is "falling off" leaving behind the raw tissue. The tumor is in the nasal passage and was seen on a rhinoscope. It's so far up there though, it was pretty hard to see. The first thing I noticed when this all started to happen was the top of the nose, the planum, was getting very dried out and seemed to be peeling or crusty. I at first thought he was just perhaps not drinking enough due to age and whatever and his skin was getting drier. Obviously, that was way off! The tumor seems to be pressing on his brain and probably why he is having seizures. He has now started (yesterday) with these little tremors, barely noticed by him, but they make him stumble and if I am not right there he can fall into furniture and bang his already tender nose. He is never alone now, either me or my hubby is there with him all the time now. We just changed our work schedules to fit. This is so hard. He acts so normal for our "whizbang" most of the time, that you wouldn't even know he was sick except for the obvious. I hope these tremor things aren't signaling another drastic change towards what is now becoming the inevitable. I guess we are just further along in the process perhaps then the other photos I have seen posted. I wish we had caught this sooner, although that maybe wouldn't have made much difference. I don't know and that's the worst of all.
I know how hard it is. Give him lots of hugs and tell him how much you love him. You sound like loving and wonderful dog parents.
For Coco, is it useless at all to give him Budwig diet?
I learned from some articles about Cancer Diet that Cancer cell is mostly nurtured by Carbohydrate and it seems scietifically proved.
Budwig Diet and Protein/Vegetable Diet may be too late for helping Coco since it seem developted too far, however
why not feed him with eggs, milk, Tofu, fish...which have lots of protein
and vegetables providing Vitamines and Minerals instead of commercial dog food.
I don't know if you already do this diet or not.
If you started already, forgive me.
I recommend you to read about Budwig Diet one time.
It seems not just a nutrition thing... there is something else against Cancer and it's very simple and very low cost.
You can also learn how to mix Flax Seed Oil and Cottage Cheese from "Youtube".
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I am reluctant to talk about Bear after I saw Coco's picture.
But I would.
He is getting better and better.
1. No Bleeding since two times of quiet heavy bleeding on Dec.29 and 30.
2. No heavy sneezing ( still snorting when he inhales cold air)
3. Only very minor clear discharge
(his discharge was gray and all day long for a month)
4. No severe Panting in the night so both of us can have good sleep
since last Tuesday.
(For the severe panting at night in the case of Bear, Pain or difficulty
of breathing seemed not the major causes.
I don' know how that heavy panting( it was very serious, sometimes it
lasted more than 3 hours in the night) is reduced, actually almost
disappeared.
All I do for this was not to give him the food in the late night to make
him comfortable as much as possible; Last meal 7:PM with a Rimadly)
I understand every case is differnt and I don't know what will happen to bear tomorrow.
But I believe it's worth to consider the Cancer Diet including Budwig Diet more positively especially for the patient in early stage.
My best wishes are for you and Coco,
and for all of you Guys.
Does the vet have a wound salve that you can put on Coco's nose? I know the people that use blackroot salve on external tumors all use a wound salve on the wound that is left when the tumor falls off.
The vets all felt we caught Dash's cancer early but said in the long run it would not make that big of a difference as it still could not be cured. Dash has no problems with the outside of his nose.
Dash did go through that period where he quite eating and then when he started only wanted protein but when we did his blood tests that he gets for his piroxicam his BUN was up and my vet felt it was from the protein diet which is great for cancer but can be hard on the kidneys of some older dogs so please be aware of that. We switched his diet as he decided he was back to eating whatever was served and his BUN is now in the normal range. The sad part of having to go off the protein diet was he felt so good on it and was acting years younger.Dash has had calcium Oxalate stones in the past so maybe that is why he could not handle the high proteins.
Last night I decided to take some photos of the tissue Dash has sneezed out. The first is the one from the " alien birth" as I call it. I have the tissue in a test tube with formaldehyde so I can show it to the vets that were skeptical of the neoplasene . It looked more like the second photo but has bleached out in the test tube. Both have the texture of raw meat, The second was last nights explosion so it is still red and bloody looking but I did wash off the blood and what is left has that raw meat texture so no it is not a blood clot as those dissolve pretty well in water and now that it has been in the fornaldehyde it is bleaching out some too so looks more like the alien birth. I know the photos are gross for most of you but I want you to see how large these things are as maybe then you can understand why they sound so stuffed up. Of course I do not know if this is tumor or if this is necrotic tissue from the radiation. I would expect necrotic tissue to be darker and blueish or black.There are darker areas that could be necrotic tissue in both samples but that could be necrotic cancer tissue or necrotic tissue that was healthy tissue.
We had a bloody evening after the nasal explosion as the blood would make him sneeze and anytime he sneezed out would come the clot that was forming, finally I gave him some Benedryl and that stopped the sneezing and it clotted off and we both a had a good nights sleep.
If You are grossed out by these pictures sorry about that being in the medical field I forget what I find interesting may gross others out!
Dashdog, I had tried a while back with different salves and even just plain old vitamin E, but being a dog, Coco just licks it right off! I am seeing the vet on Monday and I am going to ask him about possibly a topical anesthetic especially after he bumps it. I don't know though, with so much tissue exposed, how well anything would work at this point. I looked at the Budwig diet, as Bears Dad suggested. I don't think it is all that better than what I feed him now. I do give him Red Cell supplement, and that has helped a great deal. I have used that for many years, but mostly on horses. You're right on about the renal function and the higher protein, and I don't want to add to another problem so late in the game.
I cannot see your photos. I don't gross out too easily! I am also in the medical field now, was a vet tech for 10 years, and have seen some odd things. I always think it's worse when it's your own babies though.
You mention about vets being skeptical. A truer statement was never spoken. I get so T'd off when vets don't listen. We must've spent 3 months going round and round with vets when I started to notice that something wasn't right with Coco. Before there were any signs with his nose other than being dried out. I was so frustrated. They kept saying that I wasn't seeing what I was seeing. I tried to explain that I do not just throw my dog in the back yard and forget him, I really am WITH this dog all the time. I know what is normal and what is not, for him. I found the vet that I am going to now, and before we had our first appointment, I explained to him all the vets/time/money we had already spent, I told him the tests I wanted. He listened rather patiently and agreed, thank God. Of course, by then this durn thing had progressed and progressed. I was even told, "How do you know he had a seizure? I mean, you could have mistaken that for something else, like dreaming heavily in his sleep." Well, if I had a emoticon that could spit fire, that would be how I looked!
I am one of the lucky ones in a way though. I know what caused Coco's cancer. It was his job. Coco is a retired ATF Arson Detection Canine (yes, he has a badge!). He is my husband's partner. They worked together day in, day out, sometimes 24 hours, traveled the country, and earned top honors. Unfortunately, in the course of detecting arson, that means he has to smell all sorts of nasty chemicals that cause fires. Before anyone gets out there pen to write ATF, please know that they have been always very helpful and understanding. This is a job hazard. He was taken from the pound as a pup by, first, the Guide Dog Association to train as a guide dog. Well, Coco is looking right now, so I'll just say that during his training, um, he smelled a dog in heat, and all training went out the window. So, then he was transferred to the Bomb Squad to be a bomb sniffer dog. Well, again, he flunked out. Poor Coco. He sniffed out the bombs okay, but usually an alert is (especially with bombs) is a 'sit' next to whatever it is. Not my Coco. He pawed it. HERE IT IS. And he was right, but in real life, well, we don't want to paw the bomb! So, before returning him to the pound, somebody asked the arson program if they could use him. They offered to put him in the program and give it a shot. Coco was an expert at this. He was made for this. In fire situations, a paw marks the spot in all that debris, and boy, can Coco mark the spot! He nailed many a bad guy in his career. He still wants to go to work every day, and is ready every time the phone rings. He retired when he was 8, now he's 12.
I'm sorry about the long post, I guess I wanted you and everyone to know who Coco is! He lives with my 10 other dogs. Yes, 10. We have no children, just dogs. Most are rescues, or drop-offs ('cuz you know how people love to drop off dogs in the country...), and we just love them all so much. Yes, my day is equally divided between cleaning and working.
I found it interesting that you give Benadryl also. I have been giving that to Coco and it really seems to help dry him up a bit and help him breathe easier. However, upon close inspection today, I noticed that his left nostril is almost completely closed. But we have had no seizures now for 48 hours. Yay! Those are the worst. I sincerely hope that Dash and you do well with your personal battle. I found this forum looking for anybody with any idea of what it is like to deal with this, and found so much support, and help, and good wishes it's amazing.
And, Bears Dad? Always post about Bear regardless of what pic I may put up, he sounds like a fantastic dog, and he is in my thoughts. I only hope that by posting pics and what Coco is going through that someone else who needs the info can find it that much easier. Rest easy all, and sorry for such a long post. Who knew I could just ramble on . . . but then again, we're talking dogs, and that's my life.
Just thought I'd give an update on Nickleby. He is doing fairly well. We took him on a road trip to my sister's house in NJ (we live in MI) for Christmas. He handled it well. He was very perky and we had a nice holiday with him.
Just to see if it would help him, we did start him on Prednisone right before the trip. At first, it really seemed to help him. His bleeding was reduced greatly and, of course, his appetite increased, which was a good thing, since he was getting picky. After a couple of weeks, the positive effects evened out and some of the bleeding came back. He also developed a marble-sized bump under his right eye over the holidays. Our vet looked at it and, because of it's location and speed of growth, thought it may be a secondary infection (cyst) stemming the roots of Nick's molar, either from a small crack in the tooth or from the cancer gnawing at the roots. It could also, of course, be the tumor. The vet wanted us to wean Nick back off Prednisone to let his immune system fight any infection that may be present. Nick was also put on antibiotics again.
The first day or so, I thought the bump may have shrunk. Now I think it may have very slightly grown. It seems to be getting harder. What's frustrating is that it meets the symptoms for both a cyst AND the tumor. I'm assuming it's the tumor just to brace myself, but we'll have to wait and see.
Meanwhile, Nick is still pretty chipper. He does get a bit more tired because he doesn't sleep as well as he once did. He also has very picky and bizarre food demands right now. He refuses most all meat and dog food. He refused pot roast left overs last night. He does like lunch meat and bread...things he SHOUDN'T have with a cancer diagnosis! Feeding him is becoming a daily adventure. What's sad is that the Pred makes him very hungry, but so little is appealing to him. He'll troll the house looking for food and reject almost everything given him. Then again, on some days, he'll eat almost anything. It's weird. Meanwhile, he still chases the cats and plays with his toys and is in no apparent pain.
Tonight, Nick got in a small fight with our other dog. She walked too close to one of his bones (that he refuses to eat, but wants to guard), and he lunged at her. The tiff was short lived, but it got Nick's blood pressure up and started a small but persistent nose bleed. It's pretty minor, but I hate the blood. Hopefully, it will clear up soon.
Hope everyone's holidays were lovely. We were grateful we had a great time with Nick.
Hello all-and many, many warm thoughts during what is a sad and, most likely, confusing and frustrating time for most of you reading this. My journey with nasal cancer in my dog is coming to a close in the next week or so and I think I purposely avoided too much research prior to this because it's a mean, sad and rarely, if ever, happy ending. I have an 8 year old female Wheaten mix. I have said since we adopted her at 5 mos. that if the world was filled with Wheatens, it would be a much better place...and that holds true in her last days. Oddly enough, she suffered from random head tremors at the age 2 and we were reassured by the specialist hospital that she just had some random misfires of synapses and it was nothing to be concerned about-which is most likely true-it occured very rarely over the course of time. And, she was always a chronic reverse sneezer, loud snorer; I have awful allergies and I somewhat understood this. When it got really bad, I treated her with steroids and benadryl. She also had an estrogen issue even though she was spayed at the appropriate age (she peed in her sleep or would randomly pee without cues...or her cues were to stand in places we could not see her while we were sleeping.) We did traditional, holistic, diet changes, etc. So it wasn't that odd when we brought her in last June for allergy symptoms...tried many meds, many doctors...when we stopped steroids in Aug. b/c of her peeing in the house, she developed a polyp in her left nostril and had stringy boogs out of the right. The polyp came back benign and the boogs cames back as bacterial. Tried to treat both as such but the specialist said he had never seen a benign polyp that wasn't related to an unforeseen cancer. An MRI in Oct. showed that her cancer was from one cavity and into the other and that the polyp, which has been surgically and/or rubbed off 1x and 2x by now (Jan.), was just a physical reminder of what was (10-15x) larger of what we couldn't see. I did the $1500 MRI to assure myself it was what I was told it wasn't. I could have done 3-8k worth of radiation tx for the same outcome...there is NO cure-only prolonging the inevitable. We were told she may make it to Thanksgiving and shouldn't make it to Christmas and her quality of life was just too damn good to say good-bye before either of those. As I type this early morning on Jan. 12th, the other pets seem secure in their good-byes, as do I, and if she didn't like car rides so damn much, I might feel better about saying good-bye. Feel free to email me with questions and I know how bad this sucks for all of you going through it-if you have had a better outcome, warm wishes to you and yours...trust me, I wish I didn't know better. beegartner@yahoo.com
I am best friends with a couple that lost one of their Rhodis to nasal cancer (supposedly rare in ALL dogs) and no less than 6 mos later lost their female to the food poisoning tragedy. My loss is playing out a little less dramatically b/c I am only losing one in a longer duration but the hit hurts none the less...WHY is nasal cancer so common nowadays?
I am best friends with a couple that lost one of their Rhodis to nasal cancer (supposedly rare in ALL dogs) and no less than 6 mos later lost their female to the food poisoning tragedy. My loss is playing out a little less dramatically b/c I am only losing one in a longer duration but the hit hurts none the less...WHY is nasal cancer so common nowadays?
My heart goes out to all of you.
First of all, I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
I also want to tell you, my friend's dog (we live in the same house) also has nasal cancer and has been on prednisone for 18 months. But it is no fun living with a dog on prednisone. She was peed all over the house and often has diarrhea, which we have to clean that up, too. It also makes the dog obsessed with food in a way that can be very irritating, so I can understand why you would go off it.
I've often wondered what causes this type of cancer. My friend put a lot of moth balls in her house at one time, and I wouldn't be surprised if their was some connection. Dogs' noses are closer to the ground, so they inhale and sniff all this bad stuff. It's so sad.
Although, I don't think any type of dying is pretty. My dog passed away of intestinal cancer and I watched her whither away for a year. Her passing took a lot out of me and these vet bills can really add up in a big way.
Dogmomof11, Thank you very much for telling us who Coco is.It so touching to know he is a dog that like so many humans has laid down his life to help serve mankind. He sounds like a wonderful dog and it must be hard for you knowing this price he now has to pay for a job well done. He deserves some big hugs!
How is Nickleby doing? Any new news on that new growth?
Sorry to hear about or newest member Odessa. Sad to see new dogs joining this group. Too bad it isn't a who's dog can do the best trick thread or some other fun thing. I think you see alot more nasal cancer for several reasons, people spend more money to have tests done so you know what it is. There are too many toxins in this world now and try as hard as we do we can not protect ourselves let alone our dogs from them . And Stress. As my holistic vet said stress lowers the immune system and then it can not fight off cancers like a healthy immune system does. She feels the fact that both my dogs got cancer in the same year and hearing how stresssul our lives have been since my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2006 and we spent alot of time with her until the end that theirs is probably stress related. ( my mom was not a smoker nor am I, nor have they ever lived with my mom so no my dogs have not been around smoke if anyone is thinking a connection to smoke based on my mom's cancer).
I try to look for the positive in Dash's cancer as I did that with my mom's and it does make it more tolerable. A Big positive is some of the people I have met here and other places all because he does have the cancer. I have met some really fantastic people that I would have never met. It has also once again reminded me to slow down and enjoy the little things in life as they are what really matters most.
Dash see's his oncologist in the AM. Just a rountine check so nothing bad going on. Dogmomof 11 said she can not see the photos of the sneezed out tissue I posted and when I view this from work I do not see them either so don't know why that is as I see them on my home computer. I do want to share them as I know there are some here that probably think the neoplasene is bull but when you see what has come out of his nose you may start to wonder so I will try again in a different way using the way I use to post photos and hopefully it works. I do plan to take my test tube and show the oncologist tomorrow as he was open minded enough not to say Don't do it and I think curious about it as he really does care about the dogs.
So hopefully the photo comes out this time. It is from his two biggest producing sneezes as he has had several smaller ones too.
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For Coco, is it useless at all to give him Budwig diet?
Dash has no problems with the outside of his nose.
