Nasal cancer (breeds, german, average, swimming)

[tallmomma]

i add my condolences and thanks for your input on this thread. very sad, indeed.

[Dashdog]

I gave Dash his next dose of the neoplasene on Saturday night, He was still pretty stuffy so I did not want to make it worse ( as quality of life is my #1 goal) so instead of 0.5cc I used 0.3cc and that seems to have not caused in increase in the stuffiness. He is still about the same and last night did alot of snezzing for awhile like he was really trying to get something out of his nose but it finally stopped. I was in bed so did not get up to see if he had any luck but he did have a trickle of fresh blood coming out this morning which has since stopped. I think I am going to try using the lower dose for now and see how that goes. I feel strongly there is no sense in going too fast with this and making a dog feel miserable because it can not breathe. Some stuffiness Ok as that is what the neoplasene will cause because of the inflammation/swelling of the cancer cells but to be totally blocked up seems too difficult for the dog.

Other then that Dash is doing great though he is a bit upset as we are at my Dad's house now and Last night I put Phoenix in his crate so he had to sleep on the floor and that upset him. I had to get up early and take Phoenix to the vets and wanted to make sure she had no water during the night and make sure I could find her as being a deaf dog she tends to sleep in hidden places sometimes and can not hear you call so it becomes a hunt to find her. She loves the crate. Anyway Dash was a bit put out about that but being the beta dog he had to give up his crate instead of the Queen Jazz. They both sleep with crate doors open and often switch crates during the night!

[tallmomma]

tillie has not bleeding and so we have not used the neoplasene since our initial doses a few weeks ago. the worrisome news this morning, however, is that there seems to be some swelling on the left side of her nose. although her behavior is perfect i fear the swelling may indicate that cancer is growing quickly as it just appeared this morning. i'll keep you posted.

[Dashdog]

Hope everyone enjoyed the holiday. How did all the dogs do?

Tallmomma, I have been concerned about Tillie. How is she and how is the swelling? I hope it is not a return of the cancer.

Dash has been stuffed up but doing OK.Yesterday I gave him some eye drops in his left eye and that made him sneeze big time and that started a bleed out of both sides. It was not a gush of blood but anytime it seemed to stop he would sneeze again and blow out the clots so it went on for a good part of the day. Finally it must have clotted over but now he is even more stuffed up as he probably has some big blood clots up his nose. We seem to take one step forward two steps back.Other then that he is fine eating well and running around as usual.

I have included a photo of his Christmas prayer as I am sure the others would have offered God the same prayer. I hope things are going well for all of you. Jan

[tallmomma]

adorable picture of the charming Dash. tillie's swelling seems to have abated and, again, it has not affected her behavior. now i'm thinking maybe she got stung by a bee or something while we weren't looking. this is just how paranoid the parent of a nasal cancer dog gets. she has not, btw, been stuffed up and seems to be much happier now that the weather has cooled down.

thanks for your concern.

[Dashdog]

I am relieved to hear that Tillies swelling is no longer an issue.

Kind of sad that we do get so paranoid that every little thing is related to the cancer but unless we know for certain ,that is the first thing we think of.When you have cancer in a family be it human or animal the cancer does not just effect the one with it it gets in the heads of the whole family and takes over.

[Bears Dad]

My son, Bear suffering nasal cancer since early November, has severe panting in the night and could not sleep well.

He seems comfortable in the daytime but in the late night the panting is going on for 2-3 hours.
The air is still flowing through his nostrils though.

What may be the reason?
Is the pain attacting more severly in the night?

Please give me some idea to understand Bear's Suffering.

Thank You.

Chol

PS. I read all articles and it aleady help me a lot.

Thank you again.

[Dashdog]

Chol,

First I am so sorry to see you joining us here as that means you are now dealing with nasal cancer in a beloved dog too. We all understand what you are going through as it is not easy and it is a roller coaster ride as most cancers are, so hold on tight. Make sure the vets you deal with know what your # 1 goal is and this is so true of any illness. If you don't state what it is vets then go by what they feel is the #1 goal which may not be the same as yours so make yours known as it is your dog.

The restlessness and panting are usually a sign of stress. Could be he is in pain either cancer related or even arthritis in older dogs or many other things as well or it could be he is feeling a bit panicked because he is not getting enough air through his nose when he sleeps.

In the beginning one of the things I mentioned to the vet was Dash was panting and pacing all night which along with the reverse sneezes was a huge clue as to what was wrong. When we saw the oncologist the first thing he did was put him on Piroxicam for two reasons . He said he felt that dogs with nasal cancer must have horrible sinus headaches and to use as an agent if I chose to do any radiation. Right away it did away with the panting and restlessness and Dash slept so much better. Piroxicam is also antiangiogenic meaning it helps stop the tumor from forming new blood supplies so starves the tumor. It can be a dangerous drug and must be monitored with blood tests and not all dogs can tolerate it. Dash has a caste Iron gut and does great with it, but he is a dog that can eat anything and never get sick from it.

I also chose to do 5 days of palliative radiation and was lucky the oncologist was able to offer us IMRT which is a very focused beam and really caused no side effects except a dry eye and it seems to be a very mild case at that. He may develope a cataract but only 50% of his eye was in the field of radiation so he may not, it would be showing up soon as it usually happens 9 months+ after radiation and we are at the 8 month mark and no signs yet. The IMRT did nothing but improve his quality of life for almost 6 months then he got a horrible nasal infection and no one knew if the cancer was back too or if it was just infection. Since quality of life had been my goal since day 1, I decided to be thankful for the time the IMRT gave him but decided I would not repeat it as the 2nd time the effects would be shorter lived and it is very expensive. Instead I took him to see a holistic vet and got him started on neoplasene. In the very beginning I wanted to do neoplasene but neither my vet nor I could find any one that had used it and he was not willing to try something like that without help so I saw the oncologist and did the IMRT and I am glad it worked out that way as those months after the IMRT were so good.

As for Neoplasene it is not an easy road and is not for the faint on heart as you get alot of stuffy days where breathing can become an issue as the neoplasene causes inflamation in cancer cells and they then swell and plug up the nostril, then you get increased mucus as increase the toxins from cellular die off you also increase mucus production to get rid of them and you tend to get bloody noses as pieces of the tumor die and pull away it leaves a wound that tends to bleed when the dog sneezes.

That said I do feel a bit encouraged by it as just the other day Dash got a bloody nose and was itching his nose on everything and for the third time that I have seen sneezed out some more tissue which I can only pray have been pieces of the tumor. Since I am not with him 24/7 there could have been more but when I see the bloody itchy nose I start to watch him like a hawk when I am around and have seen it 3X now. It makes me feel the stuffy days may be worth it. I think I am at the point where I am going to give him a break from the neoplasene again as I gave him one before and he cleared up and was great then started some reverse sneezing so it was back to the neoplasene.

As for why you notice the symptoms more at night verses day. Well when you are around during the day chances are the dog is awake more and moving around and panting and we just consider it normal. At night they are usually asleep and now they are not so it really is noticeable to us. Dash did not know how to breath through his mouth and sleep at the same time he would try and sleep for a minute or two then wake himself up to pant over and over all night long. I figure he was not getting enough air in or out so his oxygen levels dropped and his carbon dioxide levels increased so he would wake up and pant to correct it then try to sleep again. Over and over all night. He would move around trying to find a way to sleep where he could breath better. It got to the point where he was so exhuasted so my vet gave me a tranquilizer and I tried 1/4 of it to take the edge off and let him sleep and he did much better after having some sleep. He did finally learn how to keep his mouth open and sleep so snores now when he has to breath this way when he gets stuffed up.

The oncologist did give me a pill to use as a decongestant when he had the infection but it reallly did nothing and I saw better results when I rubbed tiger balm on the insides of his ear flaps so he could not lick it off but would breath the fumes of it at night.I stopped using the pill which made my regular vet happy as he said it can raise blood pressue which is always a concern with older dogs. They all told me not to use human decongestants or nose drops. I have used a product called Real Willards Water mixed with normal saline as a nasal wash and it has helped some when I do use it.

It is just a day to day adventure and I adjust things as to how HE is doing. The 3 vets involved give me guidelines as to what I should be doing but I do step outside of them and make adjustments when I feel it is needed as I live with Dash so I see him everyday and see what is going on and so far it seems to work well for us. After a while with the neoplasene you get a feel as to if they should get a dose or if you should hold it another day or two or even give them a break. I am rambling now but hope I have helped answer some of your questions. I started this thread in hopes that others could use it as a guide thus am thankful for everyones input and will try to continue to do frequent updates on Dash as it really helps you deal with this when you know you are not alone and can see how others have dealt with it.

My prayers will include you and Bear as with my mom's cancer I realized that yes prayers can help . Dash and I are here for you and Bear. Jan

[Bears Dad]

I tried several things according to your advice;

1. I gave Bear a Rimadyl just before the bedtime(11m) hoping to
maximize its effect.
Bear has arthritise on both rear legs and had knee sergery for
rupturing of Ligament on left rear leg one and half month ago (he had
same sergery on right rear leg 4 years ago) so he has been taking
Rimadye since first sergery 4 years ago

2. When he woke up and started to pant(3:am), I brought him to the
outside for fresh air.

Last night was much easier for him and myself.

Thank you again.
...........................

Until last Monday morning when he sneezed heavily and started bleeding from the left side nostril ( It stopped soon) there had been only mucoid nasal discharge with occasional little bit of bloody but the Monday morning and Tuesday morning bleeding is virtually the blood with some clot and small chunk also.
I was not that much scared because I learned from your artcles that it would happen sooner or later and thankfully the bleeding did not last long.

I wonder if that will happen again this morning.
.................................................. ..................
Since my wife and I deceide not to let Bear go through the hard times of sergery,Chemo-Theraphy and even Radiation considering his age and his current physical condition( He still need my help to stand up and go out for bathroom) at least for now, I started the Budwig Diet(Flax Seed Oil and Cottage Cheese) on last Saturday and also I am waiting for the shipment of Poly MVA and Essiac Tea beside the Meat and Vegetable diet.

Well, I just began to fight with the Enemy for the Last Chapter of my Son Bears' Life and I am grateful that I have the Comrade like you.

There is a Chinese Proveb ' 同病相憐 ' that means ' One who is suffering can understand best and be most merciful to the others who have same kind of sufferings.'
...............................

I want hear your opinion.

Dou you think it's helpful to give him some anti-Biotic Pills to reduce the nasal discharge?
I think the 2 times of bleeding was a kind of the rupture of tumor and after rupturing there may be the infection which would lead to excessive nasal discharges.
I got Cefpodoxime 200mg for 7 day from my VET who was reluctant to prescribe.

Thank you again and I pray for your good fighting for today.

Chol

[Dashdog]

Chol,


' There is a Chinese Proveb ' ???? ' that means ' One who is suffering can understand best and be most merciful to the others who have same kind of sufferings.' I love it as it is so true!!!

I am glad to hear that you are giving the rimadly closer to bed time. Is Rimadly once a day and does it need to be given with food? Piroxicam is once a day and needs to be given after a meal so on a full stomach so Dash gets it after dinner if it was not for the food thing I would give it to him closer to bed time. I think it is very important that any animal or person that is sick gets good sleep as it is during sleep that our body heals itself. Lack of sleep diminishes the immune system too. Getting a good nights sleep just makes you feel better the next day and when you are fighting disease that is so important to the quality of your life.

As for antibiotics, I will only use them if I am certain that there is infection involved. You can tell if there is infection as the mucus draining from the nose will have color to it be it yellow, green, brown. If it is clear, white of red from blood it is probably not an infection. Blood can sometimes make it hard to know for sure if there is color but in most cases of infection you will see color in the mucus. If you are now giving antibiotics then I would finish the course of them just in case there was infection you do not want to stop and give the bacteria time to build up resistance to the drug you used. It is always important to finish a course of antibiotics.

What type of Dog is Bear? I will say that all the dogs that have owners that come to this thread are lucky dogs to have such loving owners who care so much about them as so many dogs never know that love. My Prayers are with you all everyday. Jan