Nasal cancer (blindness, Madison, lab, tumors)

[alessiagrasso]

Hi all,
update on what happened last Monday... + usual question for Jan :P

I talked to the "HOMOTOXICOLOGY" vet (the "holistic") up in the north of Italy and:

1) next appointment is not in a month or less but in a few months (YAY!!!!) as we "agreed" that there a LOT of things we can discuss and see throughout MY vet here in Pescara... so I'm not supposed to drive for 10hours in a day each single month anymore... YAY YAY YAY!

2) he told me to stop the piroxicam therapy and gave me a different and "homotoxicological drug" called LABO LIFE 2LC1... even cause, in his opinion, her gums were whiter than normal and this maybe due to piroxicam. (I've stopped it but just for now and we're now waiting for the result of a blood test we did yesterday... which should be ready by tomorrow morning).
The vet says this new product works better if used without any other interference from other drugs... it's not dangerous to use piroxicam + labo life but he says "it stupid as labo life works much better if used without piroxicam as it boosts the immune system and increases the number and strenght of the Natural killer Cells thus possibly causing necrosys of the tumor... or slowing down its growth".
On the opposite side there are the vets from the radiation and oncological center suggesting me to continue with piroxicam as long as Luna tolerates it (so let's wait for the blood test result). All of her life.

3) I tryed to propose and show him other products I've found in the books I've read but he told not to mix all these products and therapies... his approach is a "homotoxicological one" and he thinks LABO LIFE + the drops I was already using are the best cure I can give to my Luna.
He's also put her on an anti-cancer diet since end of May.

What do I think?: I'm soooo confused!!! What's the best thing to do? AHHHHH... I'll wait for the blood test results first and then I need to decide who I want to trust...
.
Jan... question:
Do you Know if Erica or Arlene were giving piroxicam to their dogs too? I remember you were.. I don't know about them... (Erica and Arlene... if you read... update us about Scout and the new pup)...
I'm a bit afraid of not giving any "traditional drug" anymore...
What did the holistic vet tell you at the time you went there with Dash?In his/her opinion ...Could you mix herbal remedies and traditional drugs?
thankssssssssss Dear Jan...

Joyce and Darbi: I always check your fb profiles to see how you are .. and think of both of you LOT. Thanks for your interest...

Have a great evening... all of you on this helpful and precious thread...

Alessia and Luna (who's a bit lazy these days... I hope it's only because of the incredibly HOT summer this year..)

[eginalsk]

Hi all,
I wanted to give a quick update on Scout. He had his last IMRT visit last Friday without any problems. All bloody noses have stopped, major drainage has started, and reverse sneezing has returned (odd how it seems to go away as the tumor gets larger?). All was well until he started some major limping on his right front leg late last week. We've been taking it easy because of the heat and he's never been lame before, so it was a complete surprise. The vet thought it was his elbow and advised us to keep him quiet and come back in a week later if he was still limping. Well, he looked so absolutely miserable yesterday, standing on three legs and staring into space for hours that I took him back. They did a Lyme test and xrays and found arthritis in his elbow. They started him on an injection series and he continues to rest. He's not so happy about all of this!

I was pretty bummed thinking that we had just done all the radiation and this was supposed to be prime time for him, but the weather has really made it difficult for dogs to do anything. I also have realized two things:
1. He getting OLD!! We're beating this disease long enough for him to show signs of old age. Woo hoo!
2. I had never mentioned it here because I thought I'd hear from certain responders that I was just making myself feel better, but the oncologists have always told me that they didn't believe that nasal carcinoma was painful. I never knew for sure and worried a lot about it, thinking that Scout could just be stoic and in pain. Well, after watching him the past few days, I know he's indeed not stoic and I have a good feeling that the nasal cancer truly hasn't caused him pain. Discomfort, yes, but not pain.

So that's where we are now. We're due at Tufts for a recheck next week, but I may try to put it off. Four hours in the car for a dog with a hurt leg don't sound fun, especially when I know there's nothing for them to find.

Alessia, Scout has been on piroxicam for at least a year, maybe two. I know many dogs don't tolerate it well, but we've been lucky. One of our oncologists swears by it and has seen it work wonders. I will keep him on it for as long as he continues to tolerate it. Glad to hear Luna is doing well. We just had good friends return from Italy--they loved it!

Best,
Erica

[Dashdog]

Erica, I do hope that Scout's leg starts feeling better soon as what a blow to such an active dog. It is hard for me to see Jazz stiff some mornings despite the fact she is 14.The vet feels it is arthritis and I have her on Syb.flex which has really helped keep those days of being stiff away. It is a liquid Glucosamine complex and I have noticed that the liquid glucosamine works much better then pill form. I have heard it is better absorbed by the body. She did some low 6 inch hurdles the other day and I could tell she felt like hot stuff doing them as she does miss agility alot! She was not even stiff the next day which was what I was fearing she would be so maybe I can run her on the course tonight with the hurdless way down, then again it is a hot day so maybe only a few obstacles and jumps. I wish Dazzle had her drive and Focus but that is expecting too much from a sight hound

I also agree I do not think the nasal cancer especially after treatment was painful as maybe the nerve gets damaged by the cancer or the radiation? Anyway Dash never acted like it hurt even at the end when it swelled up I could touch it and he did not so much as flinch. Dogs do tend to be more stoic unless they are Dazzle as he seems to be super sensitive to pain. Which I know the afagan hounds are so maybe it is true of other sight hounds as well. At the dog park he is known as the drama queen as if he gets nipped too hard or the times he has gotten knocked over or tripped in the gopher holes he has holwed and cried like he was being killed and everytime he turns out to be oK...drama queen!

Alessia, I can not recall if Arlene's Tillie was on Piroxicam or not. I can ask her. Some dogs do not tolerate it which is why it is not used much for arthritis or inflammations and with Dash the oncologist made me do monthly lab work( which by the way my regular vet thought was over kill as he thought every few months but not every month was more then enough). I was Lucky as Dash had what I call a caste Iron gut and nothing he ever ate semed to bother his stomach so I figured that he would tolerate the drugs well.

I know often that Herbs and other natural remedies can block or slow down the effects of some drugs so that is why people should mention what they take to their doctors. I also know alot of conventional doctors and vets are against the use of natural remedies and do not like people using them because often there have been no clinical trials done on them.

I have never heard of Labolife so have no idea of what it is. With Dash, Nancy the Holistic vet was much more open to using the metronomic therapy the oncologist had him on ( piroxicam was a part of that) along with the stuff she gave us as she seemed to feel that this way the cancer was being hit from both angles and she was actually quite hopeful of seeing great results. It was the oncologist who was skeptical and felt maybe it was too much but then the two of them had a long talk and she seemed to have him more comfortable with it. I was lucky in a way as the oncologist was not as closed minded as many conventional docots/vets are about holistic things. ( he had worked with Nancy in the past and seemed to have alot of respect for her).

I do agree that one can give too many things and then either cause problems or decrease the effectiveness of everything. I had Dash on Poly MVA at the start but there was something else he started taking that it may effect so I stopped it.. If I recall it was the neoplasene as it needs inflammation to do its job and there is the thought that Piroxicam may block that too much too but Nancy seemd to feel it would be Ok to keep using it, But not the Poly MVA too.

I think Cancer research is showing that yes diet can have a huge impact on many cancers. I really believe that a body can heal itself when it is given the right nutrients so the immune system is strong. Our immune system is there for a reason yet so much we put into our bodies destroys the immune system so it can no longer function to rid us of cancers and other diseases. I think Dash felt his all time best when he was getting alot of Protein and he did crave protein which makes me feel that yes his body knew what he needed but we had to go back to a more regular diet as due his age and the thought that old dogs should not be on high protein ( verses the idea that it is the quality of the proteins that matter and that yes old dogs do need lots of high quality protein) and due to prior bladder stones and the fact his BUN was creeping up on high protein diet my regular vet did not feel it was a good idea despite the fact he really looked fantastic on it.

It is very hard to know what to do and what is right but I think that is because there is more then one right thing to do and individuals respond to things differently. But I do remember the struggles over what I felt was right for both Dash and for my mom too All I can say is one has to do what one is most comfortable doing and not to forget that the doctors do have more training in such matters then we do though often they also have very closed minds and will only follow well known protocols.

Darbi if it helps you at all Jazz has always been a big sneezer. Started as puppy and 14 years later she still sneezes which as long as they are the regular type Is Ok by me as it is just how she is. Dazzle seems to sneeze alot too but his is obvious as when he is nervous or stressed his nose drips which is common in the breed annd explains his sneeze.

Hoping everone is finding a way to stay cool during these hot days...glad I live near the coast and very glad I am not on the east coast! Jan

[darbijanR]

Congratulations to Scout on his last treatment and hoping that rest and the injections will help. Rocky started with injections of Adequan Jan. 2009, with a loading dose and then we went every 2 weeks. Tried to go every 3 weeks, but it was best at 2. He was arthritic at a young age in the shoulder but the hips were bad. Also he took Glycoflex III daily. I agree that diet is a huge factor with anything - it builds your body to have a chance to fight and to recover. Also we were told with Rocky, anyhow, that using some herbs might negate the benefit of some of the other prescription medications. Herbs are not to be taken lightly, as I myself have found out as well. Luna, we are hopeful for the bloodwork to show the right path for you and that is the standard that will help guide the doctors. Jan, I just never heard Rocky sneeze - even with the cancer, really so this is what spooks me already. Thoughts of Joyce and little Emma and Sheldon, of course, always in our hearts. Oh, also I remember that the gym instructor said that cancer thrives on sugar. So I have tried to eliminate alot of that from my diet. It is hot this summer. Jan, thanks for the information on Jazz and Dazzle, it is good to know that it is normal. This darn cancer, is it that we are living longer or more aware? My husband said in the old days, people died young of heart troubles due to bad diets which affected their hearts, so maybe we are hearing more of cancer as our diets are improving and we are all living longer, dogs, cats and people.

[Dashdog]

Alessia here is what Arlene said,yes, tillie was on piroxicam and i think it helped keep the cancer at bay for awhile.

[joycez]

hello everyone,
I hope all is well. Erica and Scout Im glad that things are going well for you with the radiation and hopefully the arithitis doesnt set Scout too far back. I know that Sheldon got arthritis at a young age (only 3) and tore his ACL in his back leg. He had surgery to repair it and I gave him NU-PRO glucosamine supplement from then on and before you knew it he was backing to running 3 miles a day within 8 weeks of his surgery and he never had lameness in his legs so I know supplements can definitely help. Sorry I dont know much about piroxicam. As for Alessia I am glad you got some info from the holistic vet and i hope the blood results come back normal. And YAY that you dont have to go back so often! I know you have so much confusion on whats the best treatment for Luna and admire all that you are doing for your sweet girl. I am actually planning a trip to Europe maybe next fall and who know may be one of the places I visit is Italy and we could meet?! who knows but what a great thing that would be...
Darbi, Your words are always so sweet. I hope you are enjoying Miss Abby Grace. I almost complete with Sheldon's scrapbook. Although I noticed that last few pages are the hardest part, its like once its complete then it further puts closure of Sheldon's death. And now that we have no dogs in our home its all I think about. I want a new pup. My boyfriend actually went to a shelter the other day and looked at some but my bubble was burst because we rent an in-law apartment from his parents and they dont want us to get another dog. Just when I felt ready and now we cant...ho hum. I am going to begin volunteering when i get back from vacation so hopefully that will fill some of the void I am feeling. I will be gone for the next week so may not write but as always i will be thinking of you all..especially all the pups that fighting the good fight and the ones that watch over us every minute...xo
joyce ( and my loves from up above)

[eginalsk]

It sounds like Rocky and Scout saw the same vet--he's getting Adequan injections (first was two days ago, second on Saturday) and is taking Glyco-Flex III. I must say this is WAY worse than our nasal cancer experience so far. The poor dog is miserable--goes between being okay to not being able to walk. I sure hope it improves soon. It's bumming me out big time.

[darbijanR]

Scout, it sounds as you are in the loading dose stage of Adequan and then you can see how often Scout needs an injection. We tried to go 3 weeks for Rocky, but was better for him every 2 weeks. Rocky needed these way before we started them, he was severely arthritic. We heard of them from a friend who used it on her horses. It was not offered to us until we mentioned it to our vet. Glycoflex III is a wonderful product. Our son's dog is on Glycoflex II. Luna how was your bloodwork - did you get the results? We looked up Labolife and it was in a different language but appeared to be a pharmaceutical company. Love her beautiful pictures! Joyce, enjoy your vacation. You are doing alot more than I am, as I never started the memorial picture of Rocky. Sometime you will have another pup and volunteering is so rewarding. My sil has done it at our SPCA for years and it was very helpful after she lost her doggy who was 16. She would like a dog too when she retires next year. The noises that Abby makes are definately different - hoping it is allergies or something - snorts and some reverse sneezing. My son's bulldog does the reverse sneezing too. It's terrible as I listen to these things and just imagine the worst. Knowledge is a good thing, though, and I would rather be aware than not. This forum is invaluable for this, experiences and what helps and what else can be tried - a wonderful place.

[alessiagrasso]

For Erica: so sorry to hear that Scout is having these problems... but he's a strong guy and I'm sure he'll be much better soon!!! Erica keep us updated!

Luna's update:
The blood test result seems to have more or less "normal" parameters apart from a huge triglycerides value (almost 4 times the average)... which might be hopefully due only to the fact she had been on a empty stomach for less than 12 hours ... I'll probably need to repeat the blood test...

It seems that she can continue with piroxicam.... and I've finally decided she will.
I'll give her both drugs ... as I've read on Labolife that it can be associated with any other therapy... so, I guess, to piroxicam as well.

Luna is still fine... she's sleeping a lot during the day and is more active in the evening when it's less HOT!!! but she eats, plays if encouraged and seems happy!!!



I hope you all are doing great... especially Erica and Scout.

Hugs to all of you!!... and to your pups on earth or at the rainbow bridge....

[alessiagrasso]

to Joyce:

If you come to Italy we will be sooooooo pleased and happy to have you at our place!!!
Just... let me know when you are coming....