HPISD vs. North Dallas Private Schools (Austin, Plano: 2014, top schools, university)
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I know this is a really old thread, so I am just leaving this comment for my own therapeutic reasons, sending my two cents out into the ether. My husband and I are looking to buy a house in Dallas, so I've been checking out opinions about various neighborhoods in online forums. I have read a number of posts by TurtleCreek80, and I felt compelled to comment on this one.
I've read so many comments about the importance of considering your children's education and future when buying a house, and my husband and I, like most people, are thinking about those factors as we search for a home and prepare for what will most likely be the largest financial investment of our lives. However, my own educational experience and background highlight what I feel is a very important lesson to all potential home buyers out there.
I grew up in Garland where the school districts are less than stellar, and went to South Garland High School, which is very poorly regarded not only in the DFW area but in Garland itself. I certainly had none of the academic advantages that TurtleCreek80 benefited from in HPISD. Nevertheless, I have always been academically inclined and got the best education that I could where I was.
I noticed on another thread that TC80 specifically mentioned applying to Davidson and Vanderbilt, two schools to which I also applied. I wonder, TC80, if the "Top Ten Liberal Arts college" at which you were waitlisted and never accepted was, in fact, Davidson. If so, I find it interesting that I, a supposedly disadvantaged Garland kid, was in fact accepted to Davidson with a scholarship. It was a merit scholarship, not financially based. I was also accepted to Vandy, and to Texas A&M, where I applied as a back-up. I got a scholarship to A&M as well.
Lest you think this story is intended to boast about my academic achievements, let me move on to the second half of the tale. I ended up choosing Vandy over Davidson and A&M, a decision which was ultimately unfortunate in my particular case. I did quite well in my classes, but as a very inexperienced and naive 18 year-old girl, I sadly got involved in a horribly destructive relationship that ultimately led to my having to withdraw from the university as a senior. In the end, I came back home and lived with my parents, eventually graduating from UT Dallas.
My point in telling my story is this: Don't buy a house based on what your kids will or will not achieve, what colleges they will get into, what careers they may have. Buy a house you can afford, where you and your partner can see yourselves living forever just in case that opportunity to move on to bigger-and-better things never happens to arise. Kids are going to be who they are going to be. They could go to Highland Park High School and never get into the college of their dreams; they could go to an economically disadvantaged school with abysmal ratings and get into every place they apply; they could go to a state university and thrive; they could go to a prestigious college and be miserable. You can't predict or control your child's fate by purchasing a home in a particular area. It is my opinion that people correlate these two things too strongly and make foolish financial decisions as a result. Buy a place that is the best fit for you and your partner. Your kids will be happier if YOU are happy and financially stable; in the end, their lives are their own, and they will follow paths that you can neither control nor predict.
I'm not TC80. Your thinking is comfortable and nice and all but it's also terrible competitive game theory. Although, I agree a motivated student may attend East Nowhere State and thrive . Middle/high school is a different matter though.
I'm not TC80. Your thinking is comfortable and nice and all but it's also terrible competitive game theory. Although, I agree a motivated student may attend East Nowhere State and thrive . Middle/high school is a different matter though.
I'm actually shocked to see that anyone decided to read such an old thread. I really did just put my thoughts out there for the sake of putting my feelings about this issue into words. Since there were a couple of replies though, I guess I will clarify my point by saying that I'm not talking about competitive game theory, I'm talking about any particular or hypothetical child's potential happiness.
You say middle/high school is a different matter when it comes to thriving in a less than ideal environment, but that's exactly what I did. I jumped through all the hoops, did all the things that very few of my peers were doing, was the model child and student that any parent could hope to have. And no I wasn't a loner and an oddball--I had lots of friends and was an all around happy person in my "ghetto" public schools. If any college degree at all is truly the goal, then I will say that all of the students I knew at South Garland went on to some kind of higher ed. Yes, for many of them that meant community college or online universities, but if the concern is really just to make sure your child gets in SOMEWHERE and you really don't care where, I can assure you that kids with any shred of college aptitude can get accepted some institution of higher learning no matter where they went to high school. In reality, I think most of us are thinking of a certain tier of college when we think about our children's future, not just college period. As for myself, I got into schools that children who have been groomed for greatness since birth were turned away from. It seemed like the sky was the limit, but then, well, life happened. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I met the wrong person. Some really hard things followed.
What I am saying is that children can find success anywhere, and they can watch that success evaporate in front of them anywhere. It doesn't seem like a good idea to buy a house based on an equation with so many moving and unpredictable parts. However, I realize I am speaking from a very specific perspective that maybe doesn't make sense to the general public.
In a nutshell, my thinking is this: when I hear people say, "Oh you should DEFINITELY buy in HPISD or send your kids to St. Mark's/Hockaday--look at all the advantages they'll have! They'll get THESE kind of test scores and get into THESE kinds of schools," my response is "Eh, I didn't have any of those so-called advantages and I still got those test scores, and got into those colleges and universities. And fat lot of good it did me in the end."
Don't get me wrong, I want my (future) kids to have everything I never had. I want them to be bright and successful and happy and I don't want them to experience the excruciating growing pains I did in my college years. But I've learned to accept that those hopes are not tied to where my husband and I buy our home. They are two separate things entirely, and I don't want to bundle them together.
I understand other people will not share my point of view. Then again, I've always been a statistical outlier, so I don't tend to think like the rest.
All any of us can do is try to find what's best for our own specific situation I suppose. Happy house hunting to those still looking.
I'm actually shocked to see that anyone decided to read such an old thread. I really did just put my thoughts out there for the sake of putting my feelings about this issue into words. Since there were a couple of replies though, I guess I will clarify my point by saying that I'm not talking about competitive game theory, I'm talking about any particular or hypothetical child's potential happiness.
You say middle/high school is a different matter when it comes to thriving in a less than ideal environment, but that's exactly what I did. I jumped through all the hoops, did all the things that very few of my peers were doing, was the model child and student that any parent could hope to have. And no I wasn't a loner and an oddball--I had lots of friends and was an all around happy person in my "ghetto" public schools. If any college degree at all is truly the goal, then I will say that all of the students I knew at South Garland went on to some kind of higher ed. Yes, for many of them that meant community college or online universities, but if the concern is really just to make sure your child gets in SOMEWHERE and you really don't care where, I can assure you that kids with any shred of college aptitude can get accepted some institution of higher learning no matter where they went to high school. In reality, I think most of us are thinking of a certain tier of college when we think about our children's future, not just college period. As for myself, I got into schools that children who have been groomed for greatness since birth were turned away from. It seemed like the sky was the limit, but then, well, life happened. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I met the wrong person. Some really hard things followed.
What I am saying is that children can find success anywhere, and they can watch that success evaporate in front of them anywhere. It doesn't seem like a good idea to buy a house based on an equation with so many moving and unpredictable parts. However, I realize I am speaking from a very specific perspective that maybe doesn't make sense to the general public.
In a nutshell, my thinking is this: when I hear people say, "Oh you should DEFINITELY buy in HPISD or send your kids to St. Mark's/Hockaday--look at all the advantages they'll have! They'll get THESE kind of test scores and get into THESE kinds of schools," my response is "Eh, I didn't have any of those so-called advantages and I still got those test scores, and got into those colleges and universities. And fat lot of good it did me in the end."
Don't get me wrong, I want my (future) kids to have everything I never had. I want them to be bright and successful and happy and I don't want them to experience the excruciating growing pains I did in my college years. But I've learned to accept that those hopes are not tied to where my husband and I buy our home. They are two separate things entirely, and I don't want to bundle them together.
I understand other people will not share my point of view. Then again, I've always been a statistical outlier, so I don't tend to think like the rest.
All any of us can do is try to find what's best for our own specific situation I suppose. Happy house hunting to those still looking.
Happened once, must be a trend. You may be an outlier. A stud. A star. The better question is where did everyone else from your high school wind up at? Where did the average student from your school go for college?
However when you say "some institution of higher learning" do you think that really cuts it anymore? All colleges are not created equal and with the dilution of degrees from online universities you only have the reputation of YOUR college behind you.
Children can have success in any school. But certain schools definitely stack the deck in their favor. Also a better high school means a better transition to college as well.
"It seemed like the sky was the limit, but then, well, life happened. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I met the wrong person. Some really hard things followed."
This is your own situation. A choice you made. For most kids, being in a better school, with a culture of achievement is a better option. You act as though it doesn't matter at all.
It seemed like the sky was the limit, but then, well, life happened. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I met the wrong person. Some really hard things followed.
I also went to a below average (1A) school, and our top grads went to major universities every year (ie: Notre Dame, Duke, Princeton, USC, William & Mary) for my 4 years where the average student went to San Angelo State, but you also have to understand that top students from top schools don't very often get hit and destroyed by 'life happens' events like regular people do.
I'm speaking generally, but they have lawyer parents to bail them out, their dates are vetted by debutante balls, they speak to the dean personally and get things taken care of, they get the medical care they need, their general living arrangements are not with a shady buddy they met in the dorms but another high achiever, and the general expectation is they will do well in undergrad (no matter how exclusive) because that is just a stepping stone to higher education and career options, not the goal.
Not all mistakes are equal and the outliers there are the ones that fail, not the ones that succeed.
And yeah, I think if you can afford it, then the best public and private will instill all those things that an average public high school just can't do except for the very most driven and most goody two shoes. If your kid is that intelligent, driven and that straight and narrow, then they will succeed anywhere. But that's the thing you can't control. You can control where they go to school if you have the funds.
Happened once, must be a trend. You may be an outlier. A stud. A star. The better question is where did everyone else from your high school wind up at? Where did the average student from your school go for college?
.
Most of my star performers have no college degree. And many by their own admission were average students. Some have a two-year equivalent technical course. So, if you are asking me, these average kids are pulling down 100K a year and have no debt. One has plugged away at his Cisco quals for five years and has a CCIE.
Looking back at my MS/HS days, the stellar kids did very well, but the kids in the 96th percentile also did very well - some are surgeons and teach at Tier 1 colleges. Many of the eminent scientists of the last century came from podunk colleges as undergrads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas1230
In a nutshell, my thinking is this: when I hear people say, "Oh you should DEFINITELY buy in HPISD or send your kids to St. Mark's/Hockaday--look at all the advantages they'll have! They'll get THESE kind of test scores and get into THESE kinds of schools," my response is "Eh, I didn't have any of those so-called advantages and I still got those test scores, and got into those colleges and universities. And fat lot of good it did me in the end.".
This is a valid point. A lot of parents outsource the education of their kids or drink the kool-aid. They comfort themselves with the perception and not the reality.
Persistence, self-respect, thirst for knowledge, interpersonal skills, development of charisma, resistance of charisma, self-directedness, candor and frankness, deferment of reward, and humbleness are not necessarily taught in any school. A kid with these traits will do much better in the long run that a kid with a character flaw and the best education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
I'm not TC80. Your thinking is comfortable and nice and all but it's also terrible competitive game theory. Although, I agree a motivated student may attend East Nowhere State and thrive . Middle/high school is a different matter though.
I don't think anyone knows what the game will be 20 years from now.
While I agree with the rankings of schools, history shows that the race does not go to the smart, the strong, or anyone else, but is a mix of persistence and chance. A prudent person revisits their assumptions on a regular basis and also takes into account contrary views and evidence.
For instance, a parent may choose to send their kids to a lesser ISD to ensure they get into UT. Or a smaller ISD because they want them to be a starter in Varsity sports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas1230
I did quite well in my classes, but as a very inexperienced and naive 18 year-old girl, I sadly got involved in a horribly destructive relationship that ultimately led to my having to withdraw from the university as a senior.
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Another reason kids should go to college close to their families and social support system. This is far too common and the main reason for failure in college. I saw this so many times at UT.
Most of my star performers have no college degree. And many by their own admission were average students. Some have a two-year equivalent technical course. So, if you are asking me, these average kids are pulling down 100K a year and have no debt. One has plugged away at his Cisco quals for five years and has a CCIE.
Looking back at my MS/HS days, the stellar kids did very well, but the kids in the 96th percentile also did very well - some are surgeons and teach at Tier 1 colleges. Many of the eminent scientists of the last century came from podunk colleges as undergrads.
This is a valid point. A lot of parents outsource the education of their kids or drink the kool-aid. They comfort themselves with the perception and not the reality.
Persistence, self-respect, thirst for knowledge, interpersonal skills, development of charisma, resistance of charisma, self-directedness, candor and frankness, deferment of reward, and humbleness are not necessarily taught in any school. A kid with these traits will do much better in the long run that a kid with a character flaw and the best education.
I don't think anyone knows what the game will be 20 years from now.
While I agree with the rankings of schools, history shows that the race does not go to the smart, the strong, or anyone else, but is a mix of persistence and chance. A prudent person revisits their assumptions on a regular basis and also takes into account contrary views and evidence.
For instance, a parent may choose to send their kids to a lesser ISD to ensure they get into UT. Or a smaller ISD because they want them to be a starter in Varsity sports.
Another reason kids should go to college close to their families and social support system. This is far too common and the main reason for failure in college. I saw this so many times at UT.
I get your point- you can do well and not have a college degree- but you do have to have credentials- be it coding or what not.
And 96% percentile vs 99% is still pretty high up.
Getting into med school while not exacly a cakewalk these days, stills definitely takes a bachelor's degree. No way around that one.
Persistence, self-respect, thirst for knowledge, interpersonal skills, development of charisma, resistance of charisma, self-directedness, candor and frankness, deferment of reward, and humbleness are not necessarily taught in any school. A kid with these traits will do much better in the long run that a kid with a character flaw and the best education.
While the above is true. The kid from the top college will be granted multiple opportunities to succed while the kid from the also-ran college may just have one opportunity to succeed.
However when you say "some institution of higher learning" do you think that really cuts it anymore?
I was responding to a previous poster who said that kids do not need to get into the school of their dreams, they need to get a BA. I was just pointing out that if a BA is really the goal, that can be achieved by almost anyone from almost anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyDay
Ghetto is also not a catchall phrase.
I certainly do not think it is either. I referred to my "ghetto" high school in quotes to imply that this is how others generally refer to it (that is, after all, the point of using quotation marks--to indicate that the word or phrase is coming from another source or hearsay). I hear people refer to Garland and SGHS as "ghetto" all the time (usually they say that not knowing that's where I grew up and went to school).
I didn't mean to start a firestorm or encourage all this vitriol. If you can comfortably afford to buy in the best neighborhood and send your kids to the best schools, by all means, go forth and prosper. My husband and I have a high income and quite a bit of savings, so we have considered this path ourselves, and are constantly encouraged to do so by our colleagues. I just have some reservations about "drinking the kool-aid" as TX75007 aptly put it. Just because a child doesn't go to the best high school doesn't mean he or she won't get into the best colleges and universities. And, getting into a top college/university doesn't guarantee happiness.
You should be able to get a tour at any of the 4 HP Elementary Schools. Here's a link with contact info for the principals HPISD > Schools > HPISD Campuses I would just call them directly to set up an appointment.
One of the chief complaints I hear consistently about the private schools is how the 'problem' children are dealt with, but then again there are going to be both positive and negative aspects to any school. I know you must have specific things that are important you - Focus on what you like the best about where they attend school now and explore those specific factors with the individual schools.
I was responding to a previous poster who said that kids do not need to get into the school of their dreams, they need to get a BA. I was just pointing out that if a BA is really the goal, that can be achieved by almost anyone from almost anywhere.
I certainly do not think it is either. I referred to my "ghetto" high school in quotes to imply that this is how others generally refer to it (that is, after all, the point of using quotation marks--to indicate that the word or phrase is coming from another source or hearsay). I hear people refer to Garland and SGHS as "ghetto" all the time (usually they say that not knowing that's where I grew up and went to school).
I didn't mean to start a firestorm or encourage all this vitriol. If you can comfortably afford to buy in the best neighborhood and send your kids to the best schools, by all means, go forth and prosper. My husband and I have a high income and quite a bit of savings, so we have considered this path ourselves, and are constantly encouraged to do so by our colleagues. I just have some reservations about "drinking the kool-aid" as TX75007 aptly put it. Just because a child doesn't go to the best high school doesn't mean he or she won't get into the best colleges and universities. And, getting into a top college/university doesn't guarantee happiness.
Not a fan of the casual use of ghetto. It's a disparaging term.
As for your beliefs- that's what a forum is for- discussion. Not all will agree with you however.
You can only do what you think is best for you and your children. However college admissions and prep are a big business these days. While even sending your kid to Aiglon college for high school doesn't mean they'll do well, it definitely narrows the odds that they will.
75007 apparently works in tech, which doesn't always rely on the quality of your college. Many of those kids are self taught. But that's a new industry (not really anymore but bear with me). Now if you start talking about law school, med school, business- you definitely need that degree and the better the college it's from, the better your opportunities will be on average.
Also your network of friends increases and it's likely your friends will also be high achievers. This all in turn drives you to achieve and if you ever need to call a friend- they're at your level and can help moreso than if you were the only kid that made it to college from your school.
There's no doubt a critical mass of achievers is needed at a high school for those who plan to go to good colleges and seek ambitious careers. It is also critical that a wide array of AP and/or IB classes are available.
However, I don't agree that the entire school needs to be on this level. There are lessons to be learned by going to school with students of different experiences and levels of intellect and income.
For one thing, high-achievers from those schools don't usually sound arrogant, condescending or patronizing to others. They have developed empathy and an understanding that everyone is not going to be Ivy League material. Their enhanced emotional and social intelligence will also serve them well in the business world, where they will not be seen as the hot-shot cad but be able to get along with and manage others.
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