I consider the Galleria Dallas the #2 mall to Northpark Center in scale (Houston: sales, crime)

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Willow Bend opened as a luxury destination mall a few years before the 2008 financial crisis. Pretty much killed it’s potential.

Stonebriar has zero luxury (even MICHAEL Kors couldn’t hack it there and left as soon as their original lease ended) and is no way a competitor to NorthPark / what Willow Bend wanted to be. Legacy West is emerging as a luxury destination as LV pulled out of Neiman’s WB, plus Chanel Beaute, Gucci & Tiffany all opened there.

Galleria is kind a step between NorthPark and Stonebriar. It makes no sense for Neiman to relocate there as the luxury clientelle is going to NorthPark or Highland Park Village. That’s why Neiman left Prestonwood to move to Willow Bend in the first place. Then there is an emerging luxury market on the Plano / Frisco border.

Galleria is what it is.

Three malls got either demolished or redeveloped around the Galleria Dallas. Sakowitz and Prestonwood Town Center have already been redeveloped with the latter becoming a Walmart anchored discount center.. I'm just wondering if Neiman Marcus would have chosen to relocate from Prestonwood to the Shops at Willowbend if the space had become available as it is today in the Galleria Dallas.

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Whats interesting to me is that the Galleria in Houston and the one in Dallas serve different purposes. The Galleria in Houston is more like NorthPark since thats where our luxury brands tend to congregate. The Galleria in Dallas tends to have a more middle class vibe to it.

Id imagine location drives some of that. The Galleria in Houston is sandwiched between River Oaks, Afton Oaks, Tanglewood, and Bellaire. In Dallas, NorthPark is adjacent to Highland Park and University Park.

The only similarity between the two is the serious investment Hines put into them. It's location has zoomed upwards as those other three malls got demolished and redeveloped. It's scale has no place to go but up.

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

Agree with this. Northpark and The Galleria are way too close together. WillowBend is dead meat, StoneBriar isn't even 30 minutes from NorthPark, it's 25 minutes in regular traffic. Grapevine Mills is barely 30 minutes away. Legacy West is coming along, but it's so new it's hard to judge.

I'm just thinking about that huge development just getting started called Dallas Midway. They just got through having a huge Engineering firm locate to that Galleria office space. One or two more relocations to that development might make the Galleria Dallas more appealing to Neiman Marcus. Getting Neiman Marcus would be a huge win for all involved.
Did you know that the Houston Galleria doesn't charge Neiman Marcus rent? Or at least they didn't at the beginning. Hines handed over property to them to entice Neiman Marcus. They were hesitant.

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Oh, I 100% agree with Frisco / Plano being a second luxury market in the metroplex, I just don’t think Stonebriar will ever be the draw for those brands. It’s too family centered and is now filled with junk brands (The Buckle, Hot Topic) and mid-tier mall brands (White House Black Market, Loft, Kay Jewelers, etc). They lost their Apple Store due to Eastern District Court politics. Sephora and Williams-Sonoma are the most “luxury” tier offerings. The Nordstrom is a B- store.

Curious to see how the brands perform at Legacy West. It definitely has a better vibe for upscale than Stonebriar.

And Celina and Prosper together are supposed to increase the population of that area by 450,000. That is why I'm thinking a forth Neiman Marcus should one day be put way out there in Prosper. I think Neiman Marcus made a mistake settling on Shops at Willowbend. The Galleria Dallas is sitting pretty. NM's prior home of Prestonwood Mall was located just a mile and a half from it.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Trump Supporter

Three malls got either demolished or redeveloped around the Galleria Dallas. Sakowitz and Prestonwood Town Center have already been redeveloped with the latter becoming a Walmart anchored discount center.. I'm just wondering if Neiman Marcus would have chosen to relocate from Prestonwood to the Shops at Willowbend if the space had become available as it is today in the Galleria Dallas.

As someone who has worked in corporate retail - including for 2 of the (former) big 3 luxury retailers -and wholesale for 20 years, I can assure you that Neiman did not and would not relocate to the Dallas Galleria. Ever. Have you walked the Nordstrom there lately?! It’s awful. Almost every designer womenswear brand has pulled out of that location. They are showcasing private label where cutting edge designers were sitting on the floor 5-10 years ago. That mall is S-T-A-G-N-A-N-T.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Whats interesting to me is that the Galleria in Houston and the one in Dallas serve different purposes. The Galleria in Houston is more like NorthPark since thats where our luxury brands tend to congregate. The Galleria in Dallas tends to have a more middle class vibe to it.

Id imagine location drives some of that. The Galleria in Houston is sandwiched between River Oaks, Afton Oaks, Tanglewood, and Bellaire. In Dallas, NorthPark is adjacent to Highland Park and University Park.

It’s not “interesting” - Just because they both have the world “Galleria” in them, does not mean they are trying to be or need to br the same.

NorthPark’s proximity to HP Village (and the surrounding residential areas) are the same as Houston Galleria’s proximity to shops at River Oaks. That’s the center of the luxury biz in Houston.

Not out at T&C or the Woodlands or wherever.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Trump Supporter

I'm just thinking about that huge development just getting started called Dallas Midway. They just got through having a huge Engineering firm locate to that Galleria office space. One or two more relocations to that development might make the Galleria Dallas more appealing to Neiman Marcus. Getting Neiman Marcus would be a huge win for all involved.
Did you know that the Houston Galleria doesn't charge Neiman Marcus rent? Or at least they didn't at the beginning. Hines handed over property to them to entice Neiman Marcus. They were hesitant.

Neiman’s has ZERO INTEREST in Dallas Galleria. Actually, less than zero. It’s customer is NOT in that mall. At this point, they are not in expansion mode and even if they were, a dozen other national retail opportunities make more sense than Dallas Galleria.

Originally Posted by Trump Supporter

And Celina and Prosper together are supposed to increase the population of that area by 450,000. That is why I'm thinking a forth Neiman Marcus should one day be put way out there in Prosper. I think Neiman Marcus made a mistake settling on Shops at Willowbend. The Galleria Dallas is sitting pretty. NM's prior home of Prestonwood Mall was located just a mile and a half from it.

Neiman made a mistake at Willowbend, but not necessarily in the way you’re thinking. The entire development which just moved into West Plano 10-15 years too early. In 2001, everyone in West Plano (where the CoCo $$$ was) still preferred to drive into Dallas to shop - it was “prestigious” to have a relationship with a personal shopper at Neiman NorthPark or downtown. They were in the right location at the wrong time.

Shopping centers changed a ton in the 2000’s with “walkable urban centers” becoming popular and malls becoming outdated. Willow Bend should have been developed a la Southlake Town Center or Legacy/Legacy West…I think it will slowly redevelop that way - they have already put restaurants outside where Saks once stood. And the freestanding C&B and RH stores.

I do think it will be interesting to see where the center of northern wealth ends up being along the tollroad. Though I really don’t see Neiman opening any more full line stores here anytime soon.

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Basically, the reverse effect of the two Highland Village. The Highland Village in the Dallas is the premier shopping development of its name while the Highland Village in Houston is more similar to Knox/Henderson in terms of the type of stores that they attract.

The Dallas Galleria started out close to being on the same scale as the Houston Galleria. It had a Saks Fifth Avenue and I believe a Marshall Fields as anchors. Problem is, nearby Valley View had a Bloomingdales. Sakowitz Village was then built a mile and a half to the north and nearby Prestonwood Town Center had a Neiman Marcus and Lord & Taylor.

The rebuilding of Central Expressway exacerbated the situation hurting Northpark Center's business. Later the rebuilding of the LBJ did the same to the Dallas Galleria.

Now things should be clear sailing for both.

[Trump Supporter]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

It’s not “interesting” - Just because they both have the world “Galleria” in them, does not mean they are trying to be or need to br the same.

NorthPark’s proximity to HP Village (and the surrounding residential areas) are the same as Houston Galleria’s proximity to shops at River Oaks. That’s the center of the luxury biz in Houston.

Not out at T&C or the Woodlands or wherever.

Highland Park Village didn't really take off until Love Field regulations were freed up, it's new terminal got built, and Ray Washburne purchased the store. He immediately quadrupled the rent to most of his tenants approval. Highland Park Village use to sit second fiddle to the Miracle Mile of shopping - expressly those stores located east of the North Dallas Parkway in University Park. Back in the early eighties, Brian Bolke says those shops were tantamount to having many of his McKinney 4510 stores lined up one after another.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Trump Supporter

Highland Park Village didn't really take off until Love Field regulations were freed up, it's new terminal got built, and Ray Washburne purchased the store. He immediately quadrupled the rent to most of his tenants approval. Highland Park Village use to sit second fiddle to the Miracle Mile of shopping - expressly those stores located east of the North Dallas Parkway in University Park. Back in the early eighties, Brian Bolke says those shops were tantamount to having many of his McKinney 4510 stores lined up one after another.

Your HP Village history is all wrong. You’re giving the Washburnes/Summerses too much credit.

Yes, from the 1950’s through whenever Lou Lattimore closed in the mid to late 1980’s, Miracle Mile was a luxury destination. YSL had a store there at one point.

However - HP Village was also a luxury destination for 3 decades before Washburne bought it in 2009. And concurrently with the last decade + of the Miracle Mile heyday. And loooong before the Wright Amendment was repealed. Henry S Miller bought HPV in the 1970’s and quickly began turning it into THE premier luxury center in Dallas. Ralph Lauren’s flagship opened in the late 1970’s. Chanel and Hermès opened in the 1980’s.

I worked in HPV in the 1990’s when Prada, Calvin Klein (back when that was an important runway brand), Ralph Lauren, Chanel, Escada, Hermès, Bottega Veneta, St John, Noble Jewelers & more had shops there. Other tenants in place before the Washburne sale were Christian Dior, Jimmy Choo, Carolina Herrera, etc.


Henry S Miller was the visionary who did ALL the work that Washburne has built upon, except Washburne has the added distinction of completely killing any neighborhood identity to the center, most recently with the Royal Blue exit. Miller subsidized neighborhood businesses because he felt they were critical to the unique identity of HPV.

Here’s a D Magazine article from 1986 you might find interesting…the Tori Steele boutique mentioned stocked runway fashions from Versace, Valentino, Sonya Rykiel, Claude Montana, etc.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publicatio...-park-village/