Coronavirus in DFW - News & Discussion (Howe: passport, vaccination)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

No, Ill use gaslighting whenever the comment made qualifies as gaslighting. That one was.

People make comments I dont like all the time on this board but they arent all gaslighting and no I dont toss that term around if they arent. Its like if you said you voted for Trump (whom I despise) and I say youre a racist or Nazi because of that alone. It leaps from one small fact about a person something much more extreme. I said I was against a vaccine mandate in the current time and somehow I dont understand how science works or Im pro-Polio. Absolutely ridiculous. Different time period, different disease, different state of our society.

Still though, the other guy made an excellent point. I will say your response was far better than expected as well. Though, I don't agree with the defeatist angle.

A way vaccine mandates could be largely successful is though the private sector. My wife's company HQ through a long series of actions including financial penalties, physical segregation requirements is at 93% right now. I must add the co. faced a "Scared Straight" moment as a two people in the company died and two others were exceptional sickened all in quick succession by covid.........who knows what impact all that has had on the numbers.

IMO we need to figure this out as a nation. Covid may throw a worse variant at us. Or something abjectly horrible like Marburg could take hold.

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

You clearly dont understand the current state of human nature.

Im well aware of how vaccines work and how those viruses were eliminated (why do you think I got vaccinated), but this is 2021 not 1950. The days of doing things for communal well being are dead. We are more divided than ever. Truth is dead and the internet and the 24 hour news cycle wounded it and Donald Trump killed it. Im against vaccine mandates because they wont work in any meaningful way on a governmental level. Its like gun control. It would be a fools errand and completely useless. If private companies want to do it, good for them.

It can work. Like polio and smallpox - it'll take decades. Luckily, the federal and some state govs are mandating it and the military, along with some private companies. It's a start. Schools already have vaccine mandates, and it's just about adding one more vaccine to the required vaccine list once permitted to the under 12 year olds. Covid can be essentially eliminated if we try - even with the deniers.

Without a mandate, I think Covid will be here for hundreds or more years due to mutations, so mandates are needed. Polio, at it's worst, killed much less than Covid in one year.

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

No, Ill use gaslighting whenever the comment made qualifies as gaslighting. That one was.

People make comments I dont like all the time on this board but they arent all gaslighting and no I dont toss that term around if they arent. Its like if you said you voted for Trump (whom I despise) and I say youre a racist or Nazi because of that alone. It leaps from one small fact about a person something much more extreme. I said I was against a vaccine mandate in the current time and somehow I dont understand how science works or Im pro-Polio. Absolutely ridiculous. Different time period, different disease, different state of our society.

No, EDS is not a racist or Nazi, just misguided sometimes.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by Pilsn3r

It can work. Like polio and smallpox - it'll take decades. Luckily, the federal and some state govs are mandating it and the military, along with some private companies. It's a start. Schools already have vaccine mandates, and it's just about adding one more vaccine to the required vaccine list once permitted to the under 12 year olds. Covid can be essentially eliminated if we try - even with the deniers.

Without a mandate, I think Covid will be here for hundreds or more years due to mutations, so mandates are needed. Polio, at it's worst, killed much less than Covid in one year.

I mean, if Im being honest Covid will be here for a very long time but it wont always be like this. Most immunologists seem to think it will start to resemble a cold over time. Thats pretty common with coronaviruses. We will start to see better treatment options as well. Covid is here forever but its not going to be something that stops the world.

I think my experience with Covid was more or less average. It was very unpleasant. I couldnt taste and smell and had really bad headaches for a 6 weeks. But I know that, if I get it again, statistically its likely to be far more mild. I think that pretty much everyone on earth is going to come into contact with this virus. I hope when they do they are vaccinated so it will be more mild or have no issues at all, but everyone is going to get this even if they are asymptomatic or the vaccine fends it off. Thats not a good thing, but even as it mutates, at least half of the population will fend it off from reinfection (per the last studies I saw anyway). Then when it makes a second go around, less people will be susceptible. But the third go around less people still will be susceptible. So over time, it will diminish but it does take time.

That brings me to vaccines. I tend to view the vaccine mandates like gun control. If I could wave a wand and all guns would disappear from the earth along with the technology to make them, I would do it right now. But that isnt a possibility. They are too entrenched in society that controlling them would be a completely useless exercise. Vaccine mandates are the same. There is so much resistance to them among a minority of people that they would literally fight to the death than get one. I personally know some people in East Texas for whom that is the case. Then youve got governors of about half the states that would fight it in the courts or refuse to enforce it. It just simply wont work from a legal, logistical, and human nature perspective.

[potatocoins]

How would COVID be eliminated with mandates? Wouldn't all countries have to vaccinate most/all of their citizens in order to eliminate COVID?

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by potatocoins

How would COVID be eliminated with mandates? Wouldn't all countries have to vaccinate most/all of their citizens in order to eliminate COVID?

This too.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t vaccinate as many as possible but even if we did vaccinate everyone it wouldn’t kill Covid unless all other countries vaccinate at the same speed.

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by potatocoins

How would COVID be eliminated with mandates? Wouldn't all countries have to vaccinate most/all of their citizens in order to eliminate COVID?

It won't be. Australia has had some really strict mandates and COVID is still a problem. Just encourage people to get the vaccine and move on with life.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

I mean, if Im being honest Covid will be here for a very long time but it wont always be like this. Most immunologists seem to think it will start to resemble a cold over time. Thats pretty common with coronaviruses. We will start to see better treatment options as well. Covid is here forever but its not going to be something that stops the world.

I think my experience with Covid was more or less average. It was very unpleasant. I couldnt taste and smell and had really bad headaches for a 6 weeks. But I know that, if I get it again, statistically its likely to be far more mild. I think that pretty much everyone on earth is going to come into contact with this virus. I hope when they do they are vaccinated so it will be more mild or have no issues at all, but everyone is going to get this even if they are asymptomatic or the vaccine fends it off. Thats not a good thing, but even as it mutates, at least half of the population will fend it off from reinfection (per the last studies I saw anyway). Then when it makes a second go around, less people will be susceptible. But the third go around less people still will be susceptible. So over time, it will diminish but it does take time.

That brings me to vaccines. I tend to view the vaccine mandates like gun control. If I could wave a wand and all guns would disappear from the earth along with the technology to make them, I would do it right now. But that isnt a possibility. They are too entrenched in society that controlling them would be a completely useless exercise. Vaccine mandates are the same. There is so much resistance to them among a minority of people that they would literally fight to the death than get one. I personally know some people in East Texas for whom that is the case. Then youve got governors of about half the states that would fight it in the courts or refuse to enforce it. It just simply wont work from a legal, logistical, and human nature perspective.

Guns have a role in society but too many people have access to them that should not, IMO.
It always takes a finger on the trigger…

Reverse is true for CoVid…too many people who SHOULD be vaxxed aren’t willing to do that
Not so strangely both sets seem to fall in the same strata…

The same 30-40% of the nation that has always been a resistor…
About the same % supported the British in the Revolution, the South in the Civil War (even in Northern states there were anti-war sympathizers called “Copperheads” who supported Secession), and other segments of the country that have always gone against the tide.
Just like the beginning of Women’s Suffrage, Labor Reform, Prohibition, the Vietnam War opposition, Civil Rights movement:
Those all began with small, groundswell movements that eventually were able to turn the tide of public and government opinion…

But what makes this so unique and strong is the Internet which allows (dis)information to be massive, pervasive and immediate without much regulation… it is word of mouth on a massive scale and has made a definite and decisive difference in motivating and sustaining the minority viewpoint…

You can’t inoculate people against a belief system that is not science-based.
So everything now really depends on people’s personal experience with CoVid and how they react

And some people may change jobs, move, estrange themselves from family and friends because of this difference. In TX, a right to work state, the legislature can’t do much to prevent a business from requiring a CoVid vax for employment as long as it is applied to ALL employees…
There is nothing “religious” about this vaccine… it doesn’t ask Jews or Muslims to take something made with pork essence for example as the British Sepoys were told their bullets were covered with pork fat to cause their Mutiny hundreds of years ago.

So private businesses may be willing to shoulder this burden for government.

In Germany where there is one-payer insurance for all citizens, the government is not paying for CoVid testing for non-vaxxed citizens if they refuse to be vaccinated.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if the refusers get numerous enough that the government or businesses that help pay to insure their employees start to makes unvaxed/ill share part of hospitalization costs.

Maybe in the US insurance companies could charge higher rates to cover those who refuse the vaccine but don’t have legitimate reason to do so…

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

This too.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t vaccinate as many as possible but even if we did vaccinate everyone it wouldn’t kill Covid unless all other countries vaccinate at the same speed.

However, keeping the disease via higher vaccination levels out of The US so much as possible would be greatly preferable to our current situation.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

This too.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t vaccinate as many as possible but even if we did vaccinate everyone it wouldn’t kill Covid unless all other countries vaccinate at the same speed.

And even then we know that vaccinated people CAN get a variant of CoVid their vaccine was not specifically designed to knock down…

But numbers of cases would be much fewer and certainly less severe in outcome