[WeHa]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

But they SHOULDN'T have. Look at what's going on in the big town next door: Delamar is opening a new hotel. Sisters of Saint Joseph is being converted from a convent to market-rate apartments. New condominiums are being built on Farmington Avenue. The cost to taxpayers? Not a dime. I can't help but wonder if this is another reason people in this state prefer suburbs over cities: When they see what public dollars are being spent on, they feel it isn't the best use of money, and the fiscal health of the city suffers.

On this I agree. Downtown Hartford hasn't offered much over the last decade to draw people in.

But the real issue is towns like West Hartford, have built their own little downtowns. Why would I drive in to downtown on a Friday night when I can go to The Center or Blue Back.

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

I would lump the busway into this category also. The state has to date not released statistics on how many cars were taken off the road as a result of the project...probably because the number is too insignificant to measure or report. Big waste of $500M IMHO, but that's another whole thread.

I disagree, the busway isn't just about commuters and cars. Hartford (like many US cities) is a food desert. Before the busway the grocery store options within Hartford were Price Rite, C Town and other smaller stores. There isn't a Stop and Shop or a Big Y or Shop Rite in Hartford proper.

With the bus way, those in Hartford and New Britain can now use it to get to the Stop and Shop in Newington or the Wal-Mart super center on Flatbush.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by WeHa

On this I agree. Downtown Hartford hasn't offered much over the last decade to draw people in.

But the real issue is towns like West Hartford, have built their own little downtowns. Why would I drive in to downtown on a Friday night when I can go to The Center or Blue Back.



I disagree, the busway isn't just about commuters and cars. Hartford (like many US cities) is a food desert. Before the busway the grocery store options within Hartford were Price Rite, C Town and other smaller stores. There isn't a Stop and Shop or a Big Y or Shop Rite in Hartford proper.

With the bus way, those in Hartford and New Britain can now use it to get to the Stop and Shop in Newington or the Wal-Mart super center on Flatbush.

In theory, yes...I just haven't seen any numbers supporting that the busway is being used in this manner and is taking car traffic off the street.

[RogerAnthony]

Originally Posted by WeHa

There isn't a Stop and Shop or a Big Y or Shop Rite in Hartford proper.

Yes there is.

Store Locator - Stop and Shop

[WeHa]

Originally Posted by RogerAnthony

Yes there is.

Store Locator - Stop and Shop

But it's not easily accessible, it's on New Park, which is more commercial property than housing and only a block from being in West Hartford.

That's a hard place to get to if you live in say the north end. I'm just saying that this bus way isn't just about commuting. It's beneficial to those living in Hartford and New Britain.

[Mike 75]

Does Hartford even have the expertise in house to do this? And if they do, considering the city's track record, is this a good idea?
City Contemplates Acting As Developer For Dunkin' Donuts Park - Hartford Courant

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by Mike 75

Does Hartford even have the expertise in house to do this? And if they do, considering the city's track record, is this a good idea?
City Contemplates Acting As Developer For Dunkin' Donuts Park - Hartford Courant

Lord help us.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by WeHa

But it's not easily accessible, it's on New Park, which is more commercial property than housing and only a block from being in West Hartford.

That's a hard place to get to if you live in say the north end. I'm just saying that this bus way isn't just about commuting. It's beneficial to those living in Hartford and New Britain.

It isn't accessible??? There is a CTfastrak station (Kane Street) right next to it. If anything this is the most accessible supermarket in the city now. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Mike 75

Does Hartford even have the expertise in house to do this? And if they do, considering the city's track record, is this a good idea?
City Contemplates Acting As Developer For Dunkin' Donuts Park - Hartford Courant

This is one of the city's biggest problems and likely what caused most of the issues with the project in the first place. The city does not have sufficient staff to deal with this type of development. Sounds like a horrible idea IMHO. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

In theory, yes...I just haven't seen any numbers supporting that the busway is being used in this manner and is taking car traffic off the street.

There is no way of determining the number of cars that CTfastrak has taken off the roads but it does not take a genius to figure out that it has taken a lot. Here are the figures for the month of June:

CTfastrak Ridership | June 2016


Total CTfastrak Local (100-series) Passenger Trips 256,438
Total CTfastrak Express (900-series) Passenger Trips 15,513
Total Baseline (31/33, 37/39, 41, 69) Local Routes 173,110
Total Corridor Passenger Trips 445,061

Average Weekday CTfastrak Local Passenger Trips 9,663
Average Weekday CTfastrak Express Passenger Trips 666
Average Weekday Baseline Local Routes 6,859
Average Weekday Total Corridor Passenger Trips 17,187

Average Saturday CTfastrak Local Passenger Trips 6,995
Average Saturday CTfastrak Express Passenger Trips 137
Average Saturday Baseline Local Routes 4,291
Average Saturday Total Corridor Passenger Trips 11,422

Average Sunday/Holiday CTfastrak Local Passenger Trips 3,970
Average Sunday/Holiday CTfastrak Express Passenger Trips 79
Average Sunday/Holiday Baseline Local Routes 1,264
Average Sunday/Holiday Total Corridor Passenger Trips 5,312

With ridership around 17,000 per day and assuming that a minimum of one car per two riders (which is likely very conservative), that means the service has removed about 8,500 vehicle from the roads each weekday. If you look at total ridership for the month, this would be about 222,500 vehicles. I would say that is a lot. The more important part of this is that the service is growing which is particularly important for when the state begins reconstruction I-84 west of downtown in several years. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

And why should the public pick up the tab for this project? If it's a white elephant, then cut the chord and raze it. Professional sports won't be coming to Hartford anytime soon, so forget it. It's over.




It's not the public's responsibility to invest public dollars in PRIVATE projects. This is corporate welfare, and I don't care how often or where else it's happening, it's wrong. I thought our state was smarter than that, but apparently not. I'm confused, you're saying cities SHOULDN'T invest in projects that are profitable?





But they SHOULDN'T have. Look at what's going on in the big town next door: Delamar is opening a new hotel. Sisters of Saint Joseph is being converted from a convent to market-rate apartments. New condominiums are being built on Farmington Avenue. The cost to taxpayers? Not a dime. I can't help but wonder if this is another reason people in this state prefer suburbs over cities: When they see what public dollars are being spent on, they feel it isn't the best use of money, and the fiscal health of the city suffers.




It takes more than transforming empty brownfields into entertainment centers to truly revitalize an area. Other cities tried this, and after the lights dim on the field, everyone retreats back to the suburbs. I'm not saying do nothing and don't build anything, but this is not the best use of funds or space. The needs of the residents whose homes abut this area are not being met, they still don't have a grocery store in their neighborhood. I encourage some of the people here to have a conversation with some of the actual residents of Hartford, and get THEIR $0.02 on what they feel their community needs. Chances are, it's not what's going up there now. This reminds of when Tiger Stadium was being replaced, all the politicians were saying the new baseball and NFL stadiums would generate revenue for the city, improve schools and policing and services. Maybe that's the case for areas that border downtown and are filled with hipsters, but a little further off the beaten path and you'll see there's been no "trickle down" of funds to these areas. There lies the future fate of Hartford, too.

But you are saying to do nothing. You think that new development should only happen in affluent and expensive suburbs and that no effort should be made to make our cities as good as cities in other states. You also believe that there does not need to be a major events venue like the XL Center in our state other than the one a Mohegan Sun. The reason downtown Hartford does not have a grocery store is that there were not enough residents to support one. That is changing and a new small store is being added on Pearl Street finally. Other stores will follow.

Just look at Front Street. It is becoming a wonderful success with great restaurants, a wonderful music venue, a movie venue that is actually bringing suburbanites into the city and soon a lot of students and faculty with the new Hartford branch of UConn. With the Connecticut Convention Center and the Connecticut Science Center right across the street, the area is becoming a major draw for people from all over the country, not just the region. So I do disagree with your opinion on this. Jay