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Not trying to go off topic but in all due respects I'd argue that student loan debt isn't that big a deal. In many cases employers can pay for some of it, especially if there was military service. You can test out of CLEP and DSST tests and many high schools allow for colleges classes while in high school.
Are there majors with high debt? Absolutely but being a doctor takes practically a decade and a lawyer takes awhile as well. Many firms will make someone partner after ten years.
If you combine a 529 plan with CLEP and DSST you can dramatically take down the costs of higher ed. Some 529 plans freeze rates and tuition so if you start at age 8 or so and put in for ten years you can have the bulk of it paid. Then test out of two years and you can pretty much be done in two years with the costs of what it was ten years ago. They don't really advertise these programs but they don't advertise many things (tax lien certificates and viatical settlements come to mind)
"Because filet mignon costs a lot more than hamburger meat. You pay more for something that is better right?"
Not always. I know of a radio sony released but discontinued because it outperformed others by 10x. Audiophiles were amazed and word spread. Not everything that cost more is worth it. 3d tv didn't exactly catch on and don't even get me started about projection TV's. I could also mention AM Stereo, CED, Laserdisks etc. Technology innovates but always drops prices for a mass market. I just bought a laser printer for about $150, 30 years ago it was probably $10,000. Recently I got a weber grill and a total gym for hardly anything. Some products drop in price quite a bit after someone uses them. Quality can be a bit more subjective along with preference. I have a gas grill. If you like charcoal or wood that's fine but it's not my thing. I use a reel mower for my yard because it's generally quieter I don't have to deal with gas. If you like a riding lawnmower for a few grand have at it.
With academia much of the content is the same. We can argue about the qualifications to get in and that's fine but for most points and intentions no on one really cares. I've hired wide ranges of contractors for my house and as part of work going into six figures easily. Check some references and credentials sure and some past work but there's no high end trade schools as far as I know. Fixing pipes and framing isn't really something that's involving creativity. I know people that work at places like Yale university, Bloomberg news service, Amazon (near hq), GE etc. They don't really care. It's getting to the point where they don't want people to have debt and employers will just train people like they used to. Six Sigma for example didn't come from directly from academia and it's been a standard for decades. Sometimes what I see and this has been a few times over the course of a few decades is those that majored in hard sciences never really had to be accountable to large groups of people (governing boards regardless of public or private) and scrutiny of results due to the approval of funding. In short they never really had to deal with bureaucracy. They get way too idealistic. It's like the part in back to school with widgets.
Now if people don't respect learning as a concept at all then it's all out the window. Even without higher ed there's plenty of certificates and licenses that industries support. Some places are know for specializations and I get that. I know of private university in Vermont that has a language program so good supposedly the CIA has sent people there. UConn has agricultural programs that you probably aren't going to find in more of an urban area. It's the professors that teach not the institution itself, I went to a public university and yet my professors also taught at private schools and MIT. The content didn't change. One of my grad classes I found out year after the fact was exactly like the same one from Stanford University. How do I know this? Because the professor showed the criteria and it matched. Same content, same expectations etc.
I would make the argument that the area and new england as a whole gains because it promotes education. No one is forced into higher ed but the fact that people go to it willingly and have the effort and the time and opportunity cost I think says much more then those that might simply desire a menial dead end job for life. Some really do give up.
CT has the HIGHEST student loan debt per graduate in the USA.
In a previous post, I've cited my source of this info. Nobody has disputed my source.
Is that good?
I guess one would have to know where the debt was incurred. If one went to a high cost school outside the are and then moved to NYC/FFC, does it count? Does a pharmacist living in Florida who incurred the average $147K of debt count there or in MI, NC, or CA?
If you combine a 529 plan with CLEP and DSST you can dramatically take down the costs of higher ed. Some 529 plans freeze rates and tuition so if you start at age 8 or so and put in for ten years you can have the bulk of it paid. Then test out of two years and you can pretty much be done in two years with the costs of what it was ten years ago. They don't really advertise these programs but they don't advertise many things (tax lien certificates and viatical settlements come to mind)
"Because filet mignon costs a lot more than hamburger meat. You pay more for something that is better right?"
The following is not an accident no matter how much your Republican philosophy says it doesn't matter how much you pay for something. Better schools cost more money BUT you can pay higher loans because you are making more money in your career. The more you put into education the more it will pay off.
Per Capita by State......Rank of Best colleges......Income Derived From College
Massachusetts #2 Per Capita Income $79,721
#1 College Harvard.............future income $74,800
#4 College MIT...................future income $86,300 MA is AMAZING....they have lots of colleges in the top 100 and the reason they are always in the highest incomes. Look at that list carefully and you will see it. CT has good access to MA colleges too.
Connecticut #1 Per Capita Income $79,771 (MA and CT are so close it is essentially a tie)
#3 Yale University...............future income $70,300
#14 Columbia U.................future income $71,400 (Columbia is a train ride away into NYC from CT)
Florida Per Capita Income $55,337
#70 University of FL............future income $55,800
#90 University of Miami.......future income $56,200
It's not a republican philosophy. Having the ability in the freedom to choose what you want create competition. Otherwise you just want no big contracts and sky-high prices. Competitions for Yates Innovation and leads to creative destruction. Just because a business or a corporation falls in the bankruptcy does not mean that the assets full long with it. The tech industry's known for plenty of buyouts which involve getting another company's technology. Look at Hewlett-Packard. They've bought out companies that in turn of also bought out companies they are a Treasure Trove of patents.
Carly I'm trying to get a tree limb cut down and I've had three contractors come down and take a look. Another for haven't even bothered to schedule time to see me. The initial ones had concerns because they thought the whole tree would come down. The reality is they didn't have insurance and that's also why they were much higher. This one with insurance has more confidence that they can do it because they've done it before.
You can talk about per capita income all you want but you do have to realize that cost of living is also a factor. Just like last year I heard some people bragging about how you couldn't open up bars and restaurants last December but in Florida you could. The reality is is that warmer weather means that you can run things year-round not a lot of people go out when it's cold out so of course you do more business.
You need to look a little bit deeper than just the schools but the actual individual programs within them in the actual professors. Harvard is supposed to be one of the top schools in the country and yet they have issues with sexual harassment. A mighty for example is also known for Noam Chomsky even though he doesn't *really* teach political science. His publishing record heavily implies that he does. I know people that have attended an Ivy League education and they're broke or they're unemployed. Meanwhile those people like Ronald Reid who never made that much from his job but amassed a fortune of millions of dollars by simply investing. The tax advantages of owning and renting out property as well as owning the financial investments far outweigh that of earning a wage. In many respects it does not matter how much you make or how much you spend with simply the balancing of it.
It's far from a republican philosophy. It's an understanding of the fact that higher tuition doesn't always mean better education. You can cherry pick stats and highlight them in different colors or bold them all you want but it doesn't make a difference. Yes, Yale and Harvard tuition is very expensive. How many students actually pay full tuition? Not nearly as many as you'd think. Why is the University of Florida ranked higher than UCONN yet costs much less for in-state tuition? How could it possibly be better if it costs significantly less?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTartist
The following is not an accident no matter how much your Republican philosophy says it doesn't matter how much you pay for something. Better schools cost more money BUT you can pay higher loans because you are making more money in your career. The more you put into education the more it will pay off.
Per Capita by State......Rank of Best colleges......Income Derived From College
Massachusetts #2 Per Capita Income $79,721
#1 College Harvard.............future income $74,800
#4 College MIT...................future income $86,300 MA is AMAZING....they have lots of colleges in the top 100 and the reason they are always in the highest incomes. Look at that list carefully and you will see it. CT has good access to MA colleges too.
Connecticut #1 Per Capita Income $79,771 (MA and CT are so close it is essentially a tie)
#3 Yale University...............future income $70,300
#14 Columbia U.................future income $71,400 (Columbia is a train ride away into NYC from CT)
Florida Per Capita Income $55,337
#70 University of FL............future income $55,800
#90 University of Miami.......future income $56,200
Something is better simply because it costs more? That is some seriously flawed logic.
Come on.....we all know that elite Ivy and private colleges (that cost more) are better than state schools.
The point was that the first school on that list for Florida is a state school and not anywhere near CT, MA and NYC elite Ivy and private colleges. We have easy access to MA and NYC colleges. IT COSTS A LOT MORE, YES.....but it produces higher salaries in MA and CT.
In the little geographical area of NYC, CT and MA look at the powerhouse universities that yes, costs more money.
Maybe you can see it this way.
CT Per Capita.................$79,721
MA Per Capita.................$79,771
FL Per Capita..................$55,337
Ranked Universities and Colleges............Future Average Income
#1 Harvard..........................MA............... .$74,800
#3 Yale U.............................CT.................$ 79,000
#4 MIT.................................MA
#14 Columbia.......................NYC...............$ 71,400 (a train ride from Fairfield County)
#19 Williams College..............MA...............$67,500
#28 Amherst College..............MA................$63,800.
#35 NY University..................NYC...............$63, 100 (a train ride from Fairfield County)
#40 Wesleyan University.........CT.................$61,600
#41 Boston College................MA................$63,600
#44 Wellesley College.............MA................$58,900
#50 Barnard..........................NYC.............. .$59,200
#58 Cooper Union..................NYC...............$68,500 (an art school)
#62 Babson...........................MA............... .$72,000
#70 University of....................FL.................$55,800
#74 Boston University.............MA................$61,400
#77 College of Holy Cross........MA.................$61,800
#81 Smith College..................MA.................$52,70 0
#90 University of Miami...........FL..................$56,200
#93 Worcester
Polytechnic Institute................MA.................$73,60 0
#96 Brandeis University...........MA.................$60,600
#97 Yeshiva University.............NYC................$60,600 (a train ride from Fairfield County)
This is astounding
Population of FL..............21.5 million
Population of CT & MA......10.7 million
Can you see it now?
In my opinion the backbone of the CT, MA and NYC economies is the money we put into education and the access we have to the better universities THAT COST MORE MONEY.
Come on.....we all know that elite Ivy and private colleges (that cost more) are better than state schools.[/b]
That's not what you said though. You said UConn is better than UF simply because UConn costs more. And you disregarded the rankings that showed UF ranked significantly higher than UConn. You then used the same rankings system to try to prove your point after disregarding rankings when it went against your point.
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(an art school)
