Will Columbus become largest Ohio metro? (Cleveland, Cincinnati: apartments, contractor, inspectors)

[mshultz]

I agree with you. Mayor Sensenbrenner was one of the rare people with vision. Wooster also has a policy of not extending water service unless the land is annexed. The sewer lines go all the way out to my land due to groundwater contamination issues. Luckily for me, the assessment was by lot and not by frontage, as I have nearly 1000 feet of frontage.


The reason why cities are declining in population is largely due to shrinking family size. Over 100 years ago, instead of being a single household, I might have had a wife, 3 children, and an aunt or uncle living with me. Also, whenever city land that used to be a house lot is repurposed, the population is going to shrink. Yes, you could attempt to build high-rise apartment buildings, but home owners make better citizens. For one thing, they have skin in the game. A declining neighborhood affects the value of their property, not the value of their landlord's property.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by mshultz

I agree with you. Mayor Sensenbrenner was one of the rare people with vision. Wooster also has a policy of not extending water service unless the land is annexed. The sewer lines go all the way out to my land due to groundwater contamination issues. Luckily for me, the assessment was by lot and not by frontage, as I have nearly 1000 feet of frontage.


The reason why cities are declining in population is largely due to shrinking family size. Over 100 years ago, instead of being a single household, I might have had a wife, 3 children, and an aunt or uncle living with me. Also, whenever city land that used to be a house lot is repurposed, the population is going to shrink. Yes, you could attempt to build high-rise apartment buildings, but home owners make better citizens. For one thing, they have skin in the game. A declining neighborhood affects the value of their property, not the value of their landlord's property.

yep even if all the homes in a city remained occupied, population would still have declined like 25% from the 60s due simply to family size decreasing.

[cheech14]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Columbus isn't just in its own bubble, it's the entire region that counts. When Costco goes to look for a new market, they don't give a s*** what the population of Upper Arlington is. They look at the whole area. Likewise with TV stations, Amazon warehouses, Sheetz convenience stores and anything else that has to do with an area.

When the Columbus Blue Jackets came to town they didn't care what the population of the city of Columbus was. They looked at the entire region.

Columbus population is irrelevant. Columbus Metro population is what matters. The Columbus Metro has always been Franklin, Fairfield, Licking, Delaware, Madison and Pickaway counties. Since the old days, Union County was added. Then Morrow County was added. Those counties were added because the region's growth spilled over into them.

Those counties didn't annex each other. They've always had the same boundaries. The Columbus Metro has always had the same boundaries, except for those two new counties that had a minimal number of people back in the old days and now have a lot more.

Anybody who only looks at city population and says annexing a bunch of empty farmland which had no people living on it before is why Columbus has grown knows nothing and should be embarrassed to be writing anything here.

None of those things would happen without the core city, though. Metros are created via commuting patterns between outlying counties and the core, so the strength and draw of the core city/county is ultimately the determining factor in how large a metro becomes. Which is then what draws in companies and investment. The exact boundaries of the city may not matter as much, but the core city is absolutely what makes any metro a draw.

That's not accurate. The original metro has not always been 6 counties. In 1950, it was literally just Franklin County.

[cheech14]

Originally Posted by mshultz

I agree with you. Mayor Sensenbrenner was one of the rare people with vision. Wooster also has a policy of not extending water service unless the land is annexed. The sewer lines go all the way out to my land due to groundwater contamination issues. Luckily for me, the assessment was by lot and not by frontage, as I have nearly 1000 feet of frontage.

The reason why cities are declining in population is largely due to shrinking family size. Over 100 years ago, instead of being a single household, I might have had a wife, 3 children, and an aunt or uncle living with me. Also, whenever city land that used to be a house lot is repurposed, the population is going to shrink. Yes, you could attempt to build high-rise apartment buildings, but home owners make better citizens. For one thing, they have skin in the game. A declining neighborhood affects the value of their property, not the value of their landlord's property.

I don't think it was even about vision. Annexation was a practical solution to real issues. Cleveland and Cincinnati may have done the same thing, but by the time annexation started in Columbus, both of them were already completely surrounded and they no longer had any options.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by cheech14

I don't think it was even about vision. Annexation was a practical solution to real issues. Cleveland and Cincinnati may have done the same thing, but by the time annexation started in Columbus, both of them were already completely surrounded and they no longer had any options.

I cant speak for cleveland, but places like Norwood, Elmwood Pl, and St Bernard shouldve been annexed long ago by Cincy....personally, I feel that too many public officials in these surrounded by Cincy municipalities are more interested in securing their own jobs instead of what works best for consitituents. There a strong suburban / urban divide in this area, as Ive mentioned, and it really comes out when words like annexation come around...to illustrate how growth is hampered in such cases...

Cincinnati and other Ohio cities can't just swallow another community. Nate Ela is an assistant professor of political science and law at the University of Cincinnati, and says it's a matter of state law. The general rule is: in order for one city to annex another, voters in both communities have to approve it.

https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2020...-of-cincinnati

Then there is the following blurb that shows how badly Cincy leadership can suck...not unique to Cincy but ya...

2. It’s completely surrounded by Cincinnati

Norwood is an enclave, in other words, bordered on all sides by another city, in this case, Cincinnati. Starting in 1902, Cincinnati made several attempts to annex Norwood. Shortly after the first attempt failed, the village of Norwood incorporated as a city.

The last annexation attempt by Cincinnati was in 1987, just after the Norwood General Motors assembly plant closed. This time around, though, Norwood considered the idea. However, Cincinnati mayor Charlie Luken scuttled the plan feeling his community would simply be taking on someone else’s problems. New economic growth has come to Norwood since then in the form of several new office parks and shopping centers.

https://cincyshirts.com/blogs/news/g...od-7-fun-facts

So, once again, my takeaway is Sensenbrenner did the right moves for whatever actually motivated him but it worked and other areas in Ohio would do well to pay attention...they wont though...but its whatever....

[cheech14]

TomJones123;65774392]I cant speak for cleveland, but places like Norwood, Elmwood Pl, and St Bernard shouldve been annexed long ago by Cincy....personally, I feel that too many public officials in these surrounded by Cincy municipalities are more interested in securing their own jobs instead of what works best for consitituents. There a strong suburban / urban divide in this area, as Ive mentioned, and it really comes out when words like annexation come around...to illustrate how growth is hampered in such cases...

You make an interesting point. There is much less of the urban-suburban antagonism in Columbus, it seems. The city has a relatively productive relationship with its suburbs. Even in terms of voting patterns, most places within Franklin County are voting the same way on most issues.

https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2020...-of-cincinnati

Then there is the following blurb that shows how badly Cincy leadership can suck...not unique to Cincy but ya...

https://cincyshirts.com/blogs/news/g...od-7-fun-facts

So, once again, my takeaway is Sensenbrenner did the right moves for whatever actually motivated him but it worked and other areas in Ohio would do well to pay attention...they wont though...but its whatever....

It's interesting because Columbus also has suburbs that it completely surrounds- Bexley, Grandview, UA, Worthington and Whitehall. I don't think there is any interest on either side to annex them, though I am not sure if there were any historical attempts to do so.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by cheech14

You make an interesting point. There is much less of the urban-suburban antagonism in Columbus, it seems. The city has a relatively productive relationship with its suburbs. Even in terms of voting patterns, most places within Franklin County are voting the same way on most issues.



It's interesting because Columbus also has suburbs that it completely surrounds- Bexley, Grandview, UA, Worthington and Whitehall. I don't think there is any interest on either side to annex them, though I am not sure if there were any historical attempts to do so.

Municipalities cannot be annexed, only townships.

[cheech14]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Municipalities cannot be annexed, only townships.

I believe they can if they agree to it, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Either way, there is no interest in doing so.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Municipalities cannot be annexed, only townships.

Negatory...

Cincinnati and other Ohio cities can't just swallow another community. Nate Ela is an assistant professor of political science and law at the University of Cincinnati, and says it's a matter of state law. The general rule is: in order for one city to annex another, voters in both communities have to approve it

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by cheech14

You make an interesting point. There is much less of the urban-suburban antagonism in Columbus, it seems. The city has a relatively productive relationship with its suburbs. Even in terms of voting patterns, most places within Franklin County are voting the same way on most issues..

Im hoping someone from Cleveland can chime in to verify if that same divide exists in Cleveland as well, its definately alive and well in Dayton...I lived there for a year and 9 months and was confronted with it right away...so Im wondering if its more of a southwest Ohio sort of thing...where so many people from appalachia migrated here and brought with them a sever dislike of citiy living...or...if its more of a racial divide where people of color tend to live in urban areas and vice versa with white folks and the country (I dont think this is plausible, but possible) or...if it comes back to a parochial and small minded world view where its just not my problem so why address it...Charlie Luken encapsulated that one perfectly in his reasons for dropping Norwood from an annexation vote when it may have passed at the time...