Average GPA in HARD college vs Good GPA from Easier college? (PhD, skill)
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(I realize that this thread is old as heck, but couldn't resist adding my ten cents.)
Unless you are wealthy and already have connections with people in high places, I would suggest going to the school with better name recognition and a more established alumni network (within your field). Those types of schools tend to have well-connected alumni that can boost your odds of finding great (i.e., high paying) jobs.
For example, my husband and I have similar undergraduate GPAs. He attended an Ivy, I went to a regional state school. Both of us had "soft" majors. My LSAT score was higher than his by three points, neither of which were stellar. He was admitted to a top five law school. Me, top 50.
He and his law school classmates were courted by top 100 law firms. Yet, at Top 50 Law, only students in the top 10% could even interview for these firms. The fact that our law schools shared many of the same professors definitely added salt to the wound. Most of my fellow classmates had no choice but to pursue public interest positions, yet still faced heavy competition from Ivy League students with lackluster grades.
Now, six years later, I make a third of what my husband makes. Also, whenever he is interested in a particular firm/company, he can easily find an alum who either works or has worked there. And, many of my hubby's former classmates are now pretty successful in their careers so the same people he played Beer Pong with years ago, are currently employed at Fortune 500 companies and hobnobbing with the elite. I can't say the same.
For a poor Black man's son, my husband, despite his intelligence and overall charm, probably would not have had those same networks had he gone to a regional state school like his silly wife!
Then again, my school loans are nil and I had the smarts to marry an Ivy grad whose salary triples mine
By the way, I graduated from a top 100 undergrad, USF ranks 180. Not to knock USF because I started my undergraduate degree there. Go Bulls!
The fact he went to a top 5 law school is the reason he had an easier time getting a job. It had almost nothing to do with where he went to undergrad.
You mentioned your husband is African American. If you're not an under-represented minority, that probably explains why he had an easier time getting into a top school. Application cycles for under-represented minorities can be very unpredictable. Sometimes, URMs with LSAT scores 15 points below median can be accepted. This is neither an endorsement of nor attack on affirmative action (nor am I trying to put your husband's accomplishments into question). It's simply reality.
In the end, the law school admissions process is a numbers game. The only truly holistic law schools are Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. Everywhere else (including Harvard) wants their admitted students to 1) raise their LSAT median, 2) raise their GPA median, or 3) increase their URM population. If you can satisfy at least two of these three factors, you'll probably be admitted.
Great "soft" factors? Marginal for the most part, unless you're a Rhodes Scholar or Olympic gold medalist.
Prestigious undergrad? Going to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton can help you at the margins, but even then, if you don't have the numbers, you don't have the numbers.
Poor overall GPA but upward trend? Again, it can help if you're at the margins. Otherwise, adcomms don't care.
Poor test taker? Adcoms don't care.
I went to Pitt UG--a respectable, but far-from-prestigious large research university. I got great grades, and I got a good enough LSAT score. That's why I got into Penn. My extracurricular activities, what makes me "unique as a person," none of that mattered. I was a white male with the right numbers. I could have gone to a "better" school, but I still would have ended up in the same place--just significantly in debt. Because I swallowed some pride and went to a state school on scholly, I get to graduate law school debt free. Student loans are no longer dischargable in event of bankruptcy, so this is a very important consideration.
If you're sure you want to go to law school, finish UG with the least amount of debt possible, major in something you'll do well in and enjoy (and make sure to work your butt off), and rock that LSAT. Do an extracurricular activity or two so you look like a person, don't botch your applications, and everything will fall into place. After Penn and Yale, the third-most represented UG institution at Penn Law is... Penn State--another "good but not phenomenally prestigious" state school.
And one of my classmates went to USF as well.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 10-28-2011 at 11:14 AM..
My GPA has rarely been brought up in interviews.. but my school is brought up countless # of times. So statistically speaking, school reputation is far more important.
Of course, if you go to a good school, you might not be able to afford it and/or it may be too hard and you can't graduate.
My GPA has rarely been brought up in interviews.. but my school is brought up countless # of times. So statistically speaking, school reputation is far more important.
I agree with this. In discussions, I'm often asked about my school. Never my GPA. I went to a fairly good school, so I guess that is enough.
I heard Google recruits from only certain schools.
Four Seasons, the luxury hotel and resort management company, only sends its recruiting team to just four U.S. universities, all which are considered to have the best hospitality and tourism programs in the country.
I don't even put my GPA in my resume anymore. School and GPA is only important to land your first job. After you've been working for a few years, employers care more about experience than education. They'll ask you more specific job related questions and maybe only acknowledge your school for a brief minute. I went to a good school but that didn't do me any favors in my last interview. The 1.5 hour job specific exam they gave me landed me the job.
I don't even put my GPA in my resume anymore. School and GPA is only important to land your first job. After you've been working for a few years, employers care more about experience than education. They'll ask you more specific job related questions and maybe only acknowledge your school for a brief minute. I went to a good school but that didn't do me any favors in my last interview. The 1.5 hour job specific exam they gave me landed me the job.
It's your attitude and effort towards learning that counts.. I doubt graduating with a 2.0 gpa will set you off on the right foot in your industry regardless of what school you went to. I see the GPA as more of feedback for how you're learning (although it won't mean much at a school with grade inflation.) No need to kiss up to get that stellar GPA.. just work hard, smart and learn as much as you can and let the grades take care of themselves.
For those in grad school/law school/business school, isn't it HARDER to get a C than an A? This might not apply to the sciences, or perhaps everyone in grad school is already smart to be in a good program in the first place, but seems that getting a B in almost anything is assumed, and that on assignments/courses/tests, etc more than half of the students tend to get As. My understanding is that many professors at the Grad Level will almost robotically grade B for 'ok/average/acceptable' and A for "interesting/yup you know your stuff/insightful".
At least this is my experience so far.
Probably I think one's concentration or their combination of courses, plus the final research project is more impressive than the GPA.
For those in grad school/law school/business school, isn't it HARDER to get a C than an A? This might not apply to the sciences, or perhaps everyone in grad school is already smart to be in a good program in the first place, but seems that getting a B in almost anything is assumed, and that on assignments/courses/tests, etc more than half of the students tend to get As. My understanding is that many professors at the Grad Level will almost robotically grade B for 'ok/average/acceptable' and A for "interesting/yup you know your stuff/insightful".
At least this is my experience so far.
Probably I think one's concentration or their combination of courses, plus the final research project is more impressive than the GPA.
Not at the law school I attend. I'm in my last year, and we have less than half the number we started with.
Not at the law school I attend. I'm in my last year, and we have less than half the number we started with.
Well law schools rank (right?) so its probably different there.
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