Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am asking this question because I am curious about how hard it is to get into a decent college these days. I graduated from high school over a decade ago and college around 6 years ago and now I am wondering how difficult it is to get into a prestigious college. I have been out of the loop for close to a decade so I can't help but ask to compare it to my time. Here are some examples of people from my high school who went to decent colleges (I will also include race and gender since people like to talk about Affirmative Action):
White Middle Class Female - 1310, 3.5 GPA unweighted with a lot of AP classes, softball recruit - UPenn
Hispanic Middle Class Female - 1300, 3.7 GPA unweighted with few AP classes, nonexistent extracurricular - Cornell
White Middle Class Male - 1210 SAT, 3.8 GPA unweighted with a lot of AP classes, mediocre extracurricular - UC Berkeley Engineering
Asian Middle Class Female - 1120 SAT, 3.8 GPA (very few AP classes), unremarkable extracurricular - UC Berkeley
Asian Middle Class Female - 1180 SAT, 4.0 GPA (very few AP classes), mediocre extracurricular - UC Berkeley
Asian Middle Class Female - 1360 SAT, 4.0 GPA unweighted with a lot of AP classes, mediocre extracurricular - UC Berkeley Regents Scholar
Asian Middle Class Male - 1370 SAT, 3.9 GPA unweighted with a lot of AP classes, mediocre extracurricular - Johns Hopkins University
Black Middle Class Male - 1180, 3.7 GPA with few AP classes, nonexistent extracurricular - Williams College
Asian Lower Class Female - 1120 SAT, 3.5 GPA (very few AP classes), nonexistent extracurricular - UCLA
A lot of people from my school also went to USC and none of them from what I remember had SATs over 1200 and their SATs ranged from 1000 to middle 1200; their GPAs were also unremarkable. The 1500+ SATs and 4.0+ GPA people all went to the usual schools such as Harvard, Stanford, and etc. That said, I am wondering if the examples I mentioned are possible in this day and age since I always hear from some people that it is insanely competitive.
The common application changed the marketplace and caused applications to the top schools to skyrocket resulting in more competitive admissions.
Kids that used to go to their local state college will now roll the dice to see if they can get into a top college and receive some aid, when they didn't bother when they had to type an application and write a separate essay for each school.
Access to test prep and less top students just winging the ACT/SAT, more saavy guidance counselors that won't just push regional schools, and greater outreach by elite schools to schools outside their traditional feeders has increased the size and competitiveness of the applicant pool as well. Another trend is availability to AP and IB classes has exploded in the past 10 years or so in public schools, even those in poor areas. In my high school, less than 10% of the students were in AP classes and they were only offered in core classes like Calculus, Chemistry, Biology, US and European History, English, Physics, and Languages. Now half the students are enrolled in AP classes and the offerings have tripled.
At least half of those applicants would not be accepted at those schools today. I know 100% I wouldn't be accepted to either my undergrad or grad school if I applied today.
It is insanely competitive. However, with age and experience, where you go to college is not really all that important as long as it is properly accredited. I have done just fine with my undergrad and master's (engineering) from my local, ABET accredited state university. The best part: I graduated debt free. I have several acquaintances/peers who went to "better" schools who make similar money but are still saddled with part of their $200k debt from 15 years before. So, while the "prestige" might be enticing, the results might not be as great as some are led to believe.
It is insanely competitive. However, with age and experience, where you go to college is not really all that important as long as it is properly accredited. I have done just fine with my undergrad and master's (engineering) from my local, ABET accredited state university. The best part: I graduated debt free. I have several acquaintances/peers who went to "better" schools who make similar money but are still saddled with part of their $200k debt from 15 years before. So, while the "prestige" might be enticing, the results might not be as great as some are led to believe.
lol no one who goes to a top school takes out that much in debt...average is around 15-20k. you are forgetting financial aid
University of Michigan turned away quite a few 4.0 students in the past several years. However they accepted my daughter with a 3.9 or 3.89. I think she had around 27 on her ACT. In part I think it depends on the high school. The universities are onto which schools engage in grade inflation and to what extent. Also some schools have shifted to a 5.0 program by giving increased scores for AP classes. Thus a 4.0 from a school with 5.0 for AP classes is less meaningful than a 4.0 (or even a 3.8) from a straight 4.0 school. They also look at what classes you took and what outside accomplishments you achieved. I think for most top universities you now need a 3.7 - 3.8 or so and a 26 or 27 ACT to even get a look. Once you get through the computer system, they take a more specific look at your transcript and accomplishments. At some schools the computer adjusts for minorities and even for high school. I do not think they look at accomplishments or extra curricular until you get through the vetting system. However I was told that no one has a chance at getting into U-M unless they have substantial extracurricular involvements and accomplishments.
It is insanely competitive. However, with age and experience, where you go to college is not really all that important as long as it is properly accredited. I have done just fine with my undergrad and master's (engineering) from my local, ABET accredited state university. The best part: I graduated debt free. I have several acquaintances/peers who went to "better" schools who make similar money but are still saddled with part of their $200k debt from 15 years before. So, while the "prestige" might be enticing, the results might not be as great as some are led to believe.
I have been writing this on City-Data for years. The choice of major is often times a lot more valuable than the school. I, like the person I quote, also earned BS and MS in Engineering, the BS from Cal State Nowhere (Northridge) and the MS from UC Santa Barbara (OK, UCSB is a pretty good school). But even with my BSEE from CSUN, I was doing a lot better financially than most kids who graduated with some "softology" from a top tier school. I also graduated debt free (minus a few hundred bucks a month my dad charged me to live at home).
Also, for many majors such as engineering, where you go isn't as important as it would be for majors such as business or law as "rubbing elbows" with the right people can be very beneficial. Engineers or other science majors don't really need to rub elbows as much.
It is insanely competitive. However, with age and experience, where you go to college is not really all that important as long as it is properly accredited. I have done just fine with my undergrad and master's (engineering) from my local, ABET accredited state university. The best part: I graduated debt free. I have several acquaintances/peers who went to "better" schools who make similar money but are still saddled with part of their $200k debt from 15 years before. So, while the "prestige" might be enticing, the results might not be as great as some are led to believe.
Many of these top schools convert loan aid into grants so kids graduate debt free. The average debt upon graduation from Harvard is $7000, nationally the average debt is $24,000. I highly doubt that you have several acquaintances that have $200K in debt.
Acceptance into the top 30 schools or so is in the 6-7% range.
OP, how do you know, and remember, all of those stats?
White male, good ECs, 34 ACT(abt 1500 equivalent SAT), 3.8 unweighted GPA:
Accepted: Naval Academy (14 LAC), Case Western (37 Univ), Hamilton(16 LAC)
Rejected: U of Chicago (4 Univ) , Williams (1 LAC)
He could not attend the Naval Academy because of medical issues. He ultimately chose Case Western because they offered him more money than Hamilton. He would have applied to more schools but Case Western was very high on his list so once he got in there he did not complete his applications. The other schools he considered applying to are: Franklin & Marshall, Dennison, Washington & Lee, Tufts, University of Miami.
Even top students are rejected at the very top schools like Williams and U of Chicago.
Many of these top schools convert loan aid into grants so kids graduate debt free. The average debt upon graduation from Harvard is $7000, nationally the average debt is $24,000. I highly doubt that you have several acquaintances that have $200K in debt.
Acceptance into the top 30 schools or so is in the 6-7% range.
OP, how do you know, and remember, all of those stats?
If they graduated high school over 15 years ago, it could've been before many of the top schools began offering those generous financial aid packages. Although $200k is still pretty high unless they had trouble paying it off.
I'm also surprised by your acceptance statistics. This is from 2011, but it shows only 8 schools with acceptance rates under 8%. The 30th lowest acceptance rate is a little over 16%. Have rates dropped that much in two years?
Last edited by Mr. Zero; 03-22-2013 at 07:40 AM..
Reason: $200k is still pretty high considering tuition was also lower back then.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
