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but you wait until Obama No-Jobs bill comes. it will be 3x's as hard to get a job coming out of college because the only jobs that will be available will be janitors, maids, landscapers and government jobs.
Sometimes it helps to check current events before spouting belligerent opinions. Check the present status of the "Obama No-jobs bill" (to use your erudite name for the proposal).
I am facing reality, I'm a living example. with my little college education I should not be working with accountants, I should be flipping burgers. but I applied myself, tapped into my ability TO crunch numbers and went into my interview with my head high not knowing if I would get the job, but shot for it anyway. and got it
It's all about individual will and drive and attitude. that's it.
you can take a college kid that went 4 years, got out debt free from mommy and daddy paying their bills and STILL end up with a loser couch potato if that kid has no motivation.
Where there's a will, there's a way is my motto. and I make no excuses for it. I dropped out of college, not ashamed to admit it, but I refused to live the life of a dropout, discouraged and broken spirit. I refused.
your attitude determines your altitude.
It sounds like you have achieved more than the average HS graduate, that is great for you. The fact still remains you are below those at your company who have a college degree.
You can continue to exaggerate statistics and use only examples to try and prove your point. The overall data still shows the kid that graduates with 20k in loans will make a heck of a lot more money than the one who has a HS degree. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Exceptions to the rule often are a very foolish way to make a point though.
You have already proven this by saying those at your company with a college degree make more than you and do higher level work.
You can go to college without getting into debt...
I went to an expensive private college, and didn't pay for tuition at all. I paid for the books only. No loans were needed, no scholarship, parents or family/friends did not pay for it and it was not related to being in the military and the school did not give me any discounts. How did I get free schooling?
I am not going to answer this yet...to see if folks can guess. The way I got free schooling is still available today. The fact that nobody brought it up yet in these posts probably means that many folks do not know there is a way to get free tuition without a scholarship.
I think that the value of higher education this days is really questionable...
And i also know that if I don't have a college degree, eventually I will encounter a glass ceiling. what do you guys think? college or work?
It's up to you. If you aren't a school person, find a fulltime job.
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Originally Posted by MustangEater82
Its mixed... my advice for people to consider... get an AA, and go to a trade school(assuming one interests you) Also in something that is a little less popular. Like seems there are that many electricians and such, but you see, culinary schools full of people.
Get a job with a bigger company, work hard, move up and see if they offer a program to help pay, finish the last two years up on company dime, then look to move up.
I am thinking of asking for a promotion at my job to a manager ( CVS ). I have been working there fulltime since May because I quit school last December after getting my AA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
I don't think college degrees are overrated (you still need them to succeed in many fields these days), but think that going straight to college isn't always the right choice for everyone, and I DO think that more students need to be creative about finding ways to fund college educations. I know someone who took out 100k in undergraduate loans alone; I can't imagine ANY situation in which that is a worthwhile investment. College is still worth it for most people, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the four-year, live-on-campus, "traditional" experience. (although nothing wrong with that, either, and in some cases the small private colleges still offer better financial aid packages than do the local public universities). I do think getting a degree, even if it means taking out some student loans (keeping it within reasonable limits) is still worth it, both for professional and personal reasons.
You have to know what you are going for and what you like. Just don't go to school because your friends are going or if you have to.
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Originally Posted by a34dadsf
Yes its overrated and overpriced.
What employers want is people with skills who can get the job done for a good price. You don't necessarily need to go to school to get an education. My best employees were those who had a passion for the field and learned the skills on their own.
Having years of job experience might be more important these days than a degree.
You bring up a good point. How much of the debt these students incur could have been avoided by making better choices?
Such as:
Working parttime during the school year and fulltime in the summer. If no job can be found, then do an unpaid internship or volunteer. Both of those activities can be mentioned on a job application. Sitting on Mom and Dad's couch playing video games... not so much.
Living at home or with a relative to avoid room and board costs.
Going to a community college for the first 2 years and then transferring to a public university.
Taking AP classes in HS (and passing the AP exams) to reduce the credits/time needed to graduate.
Forgoing things like joining a fraternity/sorority, studying abroad, and partying like it's 1999.
Buying a car with student loan money because you'll "need" it when you graduate.
Perhaps student loans should only cover the very basics.... tuition, fees and books. If students want to make lifestyle choices, then they should be prepared to pay out of pocket for them. Taking out a loan for any reason is serious business. Taking out a loan so you can have a 4 year, all expenses paid (for now) college vacation is just plain dumb.
I am a parent of college age kids and I know them and their friends. I do not know ANY sitting on "Mom and Dad's couch" playing videogames. I hate that disparaging tone about Mom and Dad as if parents shouldn't help their kids. Most students I know do work part time in the school year, and full time in the summer.
Plenty of students in my area live at home for a while and go to the U of CO. That's not so easy if you live more than 10 miles or so from the U. College students frequently need to go back to campus in the evenings to study at the library, for study groups with other students, etc. There is also the cost of a car, which is at least as expensive as a year living off-campus (to buy) and a never-ending expense once it's bought. Of course, many people do not think of a car as an expense, or count car expenses when calculating pro-con of living on campus. Not everyone has a relative in a college town.
You can shoot yourself in the foot going to CC. If you can then transfer to a 4 year public college, they'll probably accept all your academic credits, but perhaps not for anything but electives. You may end up taking longer than if you just went straight to college.
AP/IB classes are no panacea. Most colleges are getting quite stringent about how many of these courses they'll accept, and for what. Most can't be used in one's major. Many colleges have limits on how many of these courses they'll accept. Considering they usually qualify just for electives or in very specific circumstances, most students in my experience do not knock any time off college via AP courses.
Most students do not join fraternities/sororities. Study abroad is a wonderful program and I would recommend it for everyone. Most kids aren't partying like it's anything.
If you live more than a couple miles from campus, you'll "need" a car to go to college.
You can go to college without getting into debt...
I went to an expensive private college, and didn't pay for tuition at all. I paid for the books only. No loans were needed, no scholarship, parents or family/friends did not pay for it and it was not related to being in the military and the school did not give me any discounts. How did I get free schooling?
I am not going to answer this yet...to see if folks can guess. The way I got free schooling is still available today. The fact that nobody brought it up yet in these posts probably means that many folks do not know there is a way to get free tuition without a scholarship.
You probably have a relative that works there or u do.
You probably have a relative that works there or u do.
No, but that is a good option for free schooling and I know someone that got free college for the entire family by working a so-so job at the college.
My free tuition came from....me working at a company that provided "tuition assistance" as one of their benefits. A lot of companies still offer this today. Most employees do not take advantage of it, since you have to work full time and then find time for school as well. Some workplaces have rules with their tuition assistance, such as you must get a C or higher. Or the degree must be in something that company has a position for.
In my case, I got the job right out of high school, then started going to college at nights/weekends while also building up a career. It worked out nicely....got promoted within the company half way through the degree ...into the same field of the degree...and got this promo in part because I was in school. Then when I finished college, I didn't have to worry about going out to get an entry level job. I already had more than a job - it was a career. And college was free!
Even better, I was able to claim mileage to/from school, plus cost of books, off my income taxes - because I was working in the same field that the degree was in. Didn't have to live off mom/dad while going to school, since I had a full time job.
The hard part was you could not take classes full time, due to working full time. Evenings and weekends were usually focused around classes or homework. I picked a college close to work and home and it was an expensive private school, by chance. But the company paid all the tuition(they didn't have a max limit per year, but some companies do).
I highly recommend this to teens getting out of high school. Corporations often hire entry level jobs..and even the entry level jobs get these benefits as part of the benefits package offered to all full-time employees. Many, many companies have tuition assistance as a benefit. Heck, in the state of FL, if you are a state employee, you get free tuition at all FL public colleges. A HS graduate could apply for the entry level paper pusher jobs or landscaper like jobs and get free college. I wonder if other states have similar college benefits
You missed the point of this post. It was meant to point ou that there are doable ways to reduce the amount of money one has to borrow to get a college degree. Will they work for EVERY student? Of course not. But, I contend there are ways that students can reduce the amounts they have to borrow. I also contend that there are students that waste loan money on things that are not necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I am a parent of college age kids and I know them and their friends. I do not know ANY sitting on "Mom and Dad's couch" playing videogames. I hate that disparaging tone about Mom and Dad as if parents shouldn't help their kids. Most students I know do work part time in the school year, and full time in the summer. .
I don't know kids sitting on the couch either, but read a few other posts on this forum you'll find out this is an issue for some parents. Sometimes kids can't find jobs. My suggestion was that an unpaid internship or volunteer work is an alternative that can provide a worthwhile experience. As to Mom and Dad, helping their kids.... where did I ever say they shouldn't? I just said they shouldn't ENABLE their kids. There's a bit of a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Plenty of students in my area live at home for a while and go to the U of CO. That's not so easy if you live more than 10 miles or so from the U. College students frequently need to go back to campus in the evenings to study at the library, for study groups with other students, etc. There is also the cost of a car, which is at least as expensive as a year living off-campus (to buy) and a never-ending expense once it's bought. Of course, many people do not think of a car as an expense, or count car expenses when calculating pro-con of living on campus. Not everyone has a relative in a college town..
Then don't live at home. Live in the dorm and be an RA. Get's you free room and board. Live within walking distance and have a bunch of roommates. Point is, if you're borrowing money for school, do your research and figure out how to live the cheapest you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
You can shoot yourself in the foot going to CC. If you can then transfer to a 4 year public college, they'll probably accept all your academic credits, but perhaps not for anything but electives. You may end up taking longer than if you just went straight to college..
Perhaps this is true in Colorado. In NC, the community colleges work directly with the students to insure that all their credits will transfer to any of the universities in the public system. And NC is typical not atypical in this regard. Most Community colleges make sure their classes will transfer. If they didn't, they'd eliminate many of their students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
AP/IB classes are no panacea. Most colleges are getting quite stringent about how many of these courses they'll accept, and for what. Most can't be used in one's major. Many colleges have limits on how many of these courses they'll accept. Considering they usually qualify just for electives or in very specific circumstances, most students in my experience do not knock any time off college via AP courses..
So many wrong statements. Colleges will accept as many credits as you have that meet their score minimums. They won't tell you "Sorry, but even though you made a 5 on the AP Spanish Exam, no credit for you". Won't accept credits in one's major? HAHAHA. My daughter was a biology major. Didn't have to take BIO 101 or 102 or Physics 101 or 102 or any Math at all or a Foreign Language or English or History. All those are REQUIRED classes. She had in excess of 40 AP credit hours going into college. The only true thing (for my kid) about your statement is that it didn't knock any time off college. Not because she didn't get credit, but because she added Chemistry as a second major. If she'd stuck with Bio only, she could have been done in 2.5 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Most students do not join fraternities/sororities. Study abroad is a wonderful program and I would recommend it for everyone. Most kids aren't partying like it's anything..
Maybe not at U of C. Take a look at the stats for other colleges. Some have 90% in frats/sororities. Again you missed the point, kids borrowing money should be looking for ways to reduce costs not add them. Study Abroad is a wonderful program, but Abroad isn't going anywhere. It's not necessary for kids to study anywhere but their college to get a degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
If you live more than a couple miles from campus, you'll "need" a car to go to college.
Maybe and maybe not. Ride share, use a parent's car for those night trips. If a car is a must, buy the one where cost/reliability make the most sense for you and then get a part time job to pay for it.
Both of my kids were blown away but the amount of money/trips/things some kids had when they were in college. Being on a tight budget themselves, they didn't understand how some kids were doing it all. Then they figured it out. SOME kids were borrowing the maximum amounts they could and living large off the money. I'm sure they had a FUN, FUN, FUN in college. But, now the FUN is over and it's time to pay back those loans. And they're complaining about their payments and how big they are and how they can no longer afford to have FUN.
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