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Anyone with a pulse is aware of the rape problem in & around universities & why many women don't report the crime. As far as Baylor's situation goes, it is alleged that multiple coaches were informed about their players' crimes, then proceeded to discourage/intimidate/ignore the victims, and going so far as to hounding one off of campus & pulling her athletic scholarship. THAT is the crux of the matter in Waco. Not to mention Waco PD is alleged to have "buried" public documents concerning some of the football rape cases.
If a coed gets assaulted off campus by someone who may not even be a student, the first entity to report it to would be APD. If on campus, then the administration & UTPD would be in "minor" cases. Full-blown rape - APD of course.
So far we haven't heard any allegations of UT officials or coaches failing to report rapes or serious assaults to the APD. Or discouraging anyone from doing so. Plus it is public knowledge what Charlie Strong does when a UT player is accused of rape. Of course the Jordan Hicks/Case McCoy case from the Alamo Bowl several years ago gets mentioned by Baylor fans, but those idjits are too dumb or ignorant to recall what really happened and why that charge was dismissed (Case had videoed the willing female which clearly indicated there was no rape & it was consensual). Nonetheless they didn't play in that game.
And yes, there are undoubtedly fake "bandwagon victims", wanting to get in on the attention or money train. But two juries in Waco thought otherwise for the cases that have been publicized.
Perhaps the most damning aspect of the Pepper Hamilton Report was that the Baylor regents intentionally requested it be done in oral form. No written report (redacted names or not) wreaks of some serious shadiness. That fact alone will keep much of what Baylor did, as an institution and as a football team, from coming to light.
However, that may prove to be a very egregious misstep in judgment on Baylor's part (shocker considering how they've handled everything else) because if the NCAA gets involved it's gonna come to light. Not to mention the Federal lawsuits. It's only going to get uglier the more that Baylor tries to hide and cover up what was allowed, and/or lack of institutional policies and protocol to protect students, specifically female students.
Guess those Fighting Baptists aren't so holy after all.
I don't know why for some Fighting Baptist fans this is so hard to understand. The coaching staff did some of their own "investigation" which was really just trying to talk the girls down off the ledge and not make it a bigger issue. That IS a crime. And the coaches are fortunate, to this point, that they're not on in a jail cell where they belong. Weak SOBs.
The obvious reason the rest of the coaching staff hasn't been fired is to keep the incoming recruiting class together, and possibly some of the veteran players who might want out. Just goes to show you the BoR nabobs are all about football & money, because when they return to their usual place in the big scheme of things they'll lose a lot of that big revenue and won't be able to pay for that expensive Toilet-On-The-Brazos stadium they just built. Not to mention the loss of prestige in the sport.
Of course Briles knows he's unemployable anywhere else, so he's going to squeeze every million he can out of the school. And that may include his son & son-in-law.
So Briles sold his character, integrity, and the chance to clear his name for half of what was 'rightfully owed to him'. Clearly innocent
Man, that PH report REALLY must have been AWFUL.
Neither side wants any of the details to be aired publically, so the school is going to pay tens of millions, not only to Briles, but the victims to keep the horrible truth from coming ot.... all in the name of preserving their football program.
Baylor could have fired him for cause and not paid him a dime. But that would entail public exposure of the nasty details of what the coaches, administrators, and BoR had been doing (or not doing).
But sorry Baylor, it ain't going away - especially when the feds (Title IX) get into it, the NCAA, and also a state criminal investigation into the Waco PD and Baylor PD departments.
I think the title for this 30 for 30 should be: "The Art of Silence"
If only 30 for 30 was a legit documentary that could somehow bring out the facts that the BOR has been hiding. The title seems a bit off though, given Arts desire to have the reports/investigation publicized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro
Anyone with a pulse is aware of the rape problem in & around universities & why many women don't report the crime. As far as Baylor's situation goes, it is alleged that multiple coaches were informed about their players' crimes, then proceeded to discourage/intimidate/ignore the victims, and going so far as to hounding one off of campus & pulling her athletic scholarship. THAT is the crux of the matter in Waco. Not to mention Waco PD is alleged to have "buried" public documents concerning some of the football rape cases.
If a coed gets assaulted off campus by someone who may not even be a student, the first entity to report it to would be APD. If on campus, then the administration & UTPD would be in "minor" cases. Full-blown rape - APD of course.
So far we haven't heard any allegations of UT officials or coaches failing to report rapes or serious assaults to the APD. Or discouraging anyone from doing so. Plus it is public knowledge what Charlie Strong does when a UT player is accused of rape. Of course the Jordan Hicks/Case McCoy case from the Alamo Bowl several years ago gets mentioned by Baylor fans, but those idjits are too dumb or ignorant to recall what really happened and why that charge was dismissed (Case had videoed the willing female which clearly indicated there was no rape & it was consensual). Nonetheless they didn't play in that game.
And yes, there are undoubtedly fake "bandwagon victims", wanting to get in on the attention or money train. But two juries in Waco thought otherwise for the cases that have been publicized.
Ahh.. key word. "Alleged". Obviously that is not the case, otherwise Briles wouldn't of just been paid tens of millions of dollars. Just because you haven't "heard" any allegations of UT officials failing to report rapes doesnt mean it doesnt happen.. Did you not see the quote I posted mentioning UT officials not being obligated to report sexual assault to the police? Must have overlooked that.. Surprise, surprise.
LOL, "idjits".. seriously? Pot, meet kettle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro
No kidding. It looks like Baylor screwed up not firing all the coaches mentioned in the PH oral briefing report. There must be some really bad crap in the report to cause the BoR to refuse to release the entire thing.
I wonder if the students & faculty will even know where to hold their next vigil "demonstration", since Starr got fired. Which coaches' house or the BoR meetings?
But it sure looks like Briles is going to try to destroy the whole place & take them all down with him. That's the kind of guy he is.
Why should Baylor of fired all the coaches? The coaches werent proven to be guilty. Briles shouldn't of even been fired, but the BOR tried to take the "easy way out" of this whole ordeal. Ended up costing them a ton of money. In case you don't understand what that means, let me break it down for you.. If Baylor had a legitimate reason to terminate Briles contract, they didn't have to pay him a dime. Why would he of gotten any money if he was rightfully fired?
Why would a vigil be held at a football coaches house? It would be awesome to see one outside of a BOR meeting though. Or some sort of student protest/blockade of the regents trying to leave a meeting.
Ahh "the kind of guy he is". What a jerk trying to clear his name and get what is rightfully owed to him.. Oh yeah, i forgot.. some kids did steroids while playing for him at Stephenville. I guess steroids aren't a popular muscle enhancer used by high school football players all over the country to try and make them stronger. What high school kid would want to be a successful jock star athlete, get a scholarship to play D1 football in college, and/or try to impress the ladies with a chiseled body? Cant think of a single teenage boy that would be interested in that..
Maybe you are so far removed from the teenage culture that you've forgotten what it was like, but unfortunately steroids are not that uncommon amongst student athletes, no matter who your high school football coach is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008
I don't know why for some Fighting Baptist fans this is so hard to understand. The coaching staff did some of their own "investigation" which was really just trying to talk the girls down off the ledge and not make it a bigger issue. That IS a crime. And the coaches are fortunate, to this point, that they're not on in a jail cell where they belong. Weak SOBs.
Its "hard to understand" because there is no proof the coaching staff did any of that. Its all hearsay. Why would anyone go to the coaching staff of a football team to report being raped/sexually assaulted? Anyone trying to report such a serious allegation would first go to the police and then university officials. Thats not the responsibility of a football staff.. They dont enforce the laws. The coaches dont belong in jail cells, but the majority of the BORs sure do..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro
The obvious reason the rest of the coaching staff hasn't been fired is to keep the incoming recruiting class together, and possibly some of the veteran players who might want out. Just goes to show you the BoR nabobs are all about football & money, because when they return to their usual place in the big scheme of things they'll lose a lot of that big revenue and won't be able to pay for that expensive Toilet-On-The-Brazos stadium they just built. Not to mention the loss of prestige in the sport.
Of course Briles knows he's unemployable anywhere else, so he's going to squeeze every million he can out of the school. And that may include his son & son-in-law.
Oh yes, so obvious..
Do you not hear the ridiculous nonsense you're spewing..? The BOR is "all about football and money", yet they just wrongfully fired the man who was responsible for bringing the program to new heights, now has to pay him tens of millions of dollars, and set their football program back for who knows how many years? I can buy that the BOR is all about money.. Football however, they clearly could care less about. What expensive "toilet-on-the-Brazos stadium" are you talking about? Surely you aren't talking about the best football stadium in the Big 12, and one of the nicest in the country...?
Well of course Briles is "unemployable anywhere else", this year.. Next year will probably be a different story though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro
Man, that PH report REALLY must have been AWFUL.
Neither side wants any of the details to be aired publically, so the school is going to pay tens of millions, not only to Briles, but the victims to keep the horrible truth from coming ot.... all in the name of preserving their football program.
Baylor could have fired him for cause and not paid him a dime. But that would entail public exposure of the nasty details of what the coaches, administrators, and BoR had been doing (or not doing).
But sorry Baylor, it ain't going away - especially when the feds (Title IX) get into it, the NCAA, and also a state criminal investigation into the Waco PD and Baylor PD departments.
Again, do you hear yourself? How do any of the actions of the BORs make you think they are trying to "preserve the football program"..? They are doing everything BUT that. Obviously the BOR is seriously inept, but "preserving the program" is clearly not their intention.
Who said "neither side wants any of the details to be aired publicly"..? Thats exactly what Briles was advocating (you must of missed that little detail too..) until the BOR decided to pay him for wrongful termination.
What makes you so certain that there are "nasty details of what the coaches had been doing"? Why would the BOR try to protect assistant coaches if they were guilty, while hanging Briles out to dry? There is no logic to that.. The coaches are the least of the problems at Baylor.
But yeah, the PH report must make the BOR/administration look even more of an abomination than they have already managed to made themselves look.
If only 30 for 30 was a legit documentary that could somehow bring out the facts that the BOR has been hiding. The title seems a bit off though, given Arts desire to have the reports/investigation publicized.
Ahh.. key word. "Alleged". Obviously that is not the case, otherwise Briles wouldn't of just been paid tens of millions of dollars. Just because you haven't "heard" any allegations of UT officials failing to report rapes doesnt mean it doesnt happen.. Did you not see the quote I posted mentioning UT officials not being obligated to report sexual assault to the police? Must have overlooked that.. Surprise, surprise.
LOL, "idjits".. seriously? Pot, meet kettle.
Why should Baylor of fired all the coaches? The coaches werent proven to be guilty. Briles shouldn't of even been fired, but the BOR tried to take the "easy way out" of this whole ordeal. Ended up costing them a ton of money. In case you don't understand what that means, let me break it down for you.. If Baylor had a legitimate reason to terminate Briles contract, they didn't have to pay him a dime. Why would he of gotten any money if he was rightfully fired?
Why would a vigil be held at a football coaches house? It would be awesome to see one outside of a BOR meeting though. Or some sort of student protest/blockade of the regents trying to leave a meeting.
Ahh "the kind of guy he is". What a jerk trying to clear his name and get what is rightfully owed to him.. Oh yeah, i forgot.. some kids did steroids while playing for him at Stephenville. I guess steroids aren't a popular muscle enhancer used by high school football players all over the country to try and make them stronger. What high school kid would want to be a successful jock star athlete, get a scholarship to play D1 football in college, and/or try to impress the ladies with a chiseled body? Cant think of a single teenage boy that would be interested in that..
Maybe you are so far removed from the teenage culture that you've forgotten what it was like, but unfortunately steroids are not that uncommon amongst student athletes, no matter who your high school football coach is.
Its "hard to understand" because there is no proof the coaching staff did any of that. Its all hearsay. Why would anyone go to the coaching staff of a football team to report being raped/sexually assaulted? Anyone trying to report such a serious allegation would first go to the police and then university officials. Thats not the responsibility of a football staff.. They dont enforce the laws. The coaches dont belong in jail cells, but the majority of the BORs sure do..
Oh yes, so obvious..
Do you not hear the ridiculous nonsense you're spewing..? The BOR is "all about football and money", yet they just wrongfully fired the man who was responsible for bringing the program to new heights, now has to pay him tens of millions of dollars, and set their football program back for who knows how many years? I can buy that the BOR is all about money.. Football however, they clearly could care less about. What expensive "toilet-on-the-Brazos stadium" are you talking about? Surely you aren't talking about the best football stadium in the Big 12, and one of the nicest in the country...?
Well of course Briles is "unemployable anywhere else", this year.. Next year will probably be a different story though.
Again, do you hear yourself? How do any of the actions of the BORs make you think they are trying to "preserve the football program"..? They are doing everything BUT that. Obviously the BOR is seriously inept, but "preserving the program" is clearly not their intention.
Who said "neither side wants any of the details to be aired publicly"..? Thats exactly what Briles was advocating (you must of missed that little detail too..) until the BOR decided to pay him for wrongful termination.
What makes you so certain that there are "nasty details of what the coaches had been doing"? Why would the BOR try to protect assistant coaches if they were guilty, while hanging Briles out to dry? There is no logic to that.. The coaches are the least of the problems at Baylor.
But yeah, the PH report must make the BOR/administration look even more of an abomination than they have already managed to made themselves look.
So the firm that the Baylor Brass hired, Pepper Hamilton & Co., is lying in that in one of its most damning assertions that some of the Baylor coaches tried to talk to the rape victims INSTEAD of going immediately to the police and/or the higher-up admins at Fighting Baptist U.?
"Baylor failed to take appropriate action to respond to reports of sexual assault and dating violence reportedly committed by football players. The choices made by football staff and athletics leadership, in some instances, posed a risk to campus safety and the integrity of the University. In certain instances, including reports of a sexual assault by multiple football players, athletics and football personnel affirmatively chose not to report sexual violence and dating violence to an appropriate administrator outside of athletics. In those instances, football coaches or staff met directly with a complainant and/or a parent of a complainant and did notreport the misconduct. As a result, no action was taken to support complainants, fairly and impartially evaluate the conduct under Title IX, address identified cultural concerns within the football program, or protect campus safety once aware of a potential pattern of sexual violence by multiple football players. In addition, some football coaches and staff took improper steps in response to disclosures of sexual assault or dating violence that precluded the University from fulfilling its legal obligations. Football staff conducted their own untrained internal inquiries, outside of policy, which improperly discredited complainants and denied them the right to a fair, impartial and informed investigation, interim measures or processes promised under University policy. In some cases, internal steps gave the illusion of responsiveness to complainants but failed to provide a meaningful institutional response under Title IX. Further, because reports were not shared outside of athletics, the University missed critical opportunities to impose appropriate disciplinary action that would have removed offenders from campus and possibly precluded future acts of sexual violence against Baylor students. In some instances, the football program dismissed players for unspecified team violations and assisted them in transferring to other schools. As a result, some football coaches and staff abdicated responsibilities under Title IX and Clery; to student welfare; to the health and safety of complainants; and to Baylor’s institutional values.In addition to the failures related to sexual assault and dating violence, individuals within the football program actively sought to maintain internal control over discipline for other forms of misconduct. Athletics personnel failed to recognize the conflict of interest in roles and risk to campus safety by insulating athletes from student conduct processes. Football coaches and staff took affirmative steps to maintain internal control over discipline of players and to actively divert cases from the student conduct or criminal processes. In some cases, football coaches and staff had inappropriate involvement in disciplinary and criminal matters or engaged in improper conduct that reinforced an overall perception that football was above the rules, and that there was no culture of accountability for misconduct."
Please explain the above away. Good luck, or not.
Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 06-18-2016 at 05:02 PM..
I know this isn't related to the scandal, but since it's related to Baylor, i put it here.
Anyone in this forum who is confident about playing Houston over the next few years...I recommend getting the hell out of the way of the Tom Herman train, because they will be absolutely stacked.
Yes, that's why the president, ad, head coach, et. Al are all gone.
Yep, TT is in denial, just like the JoePa fans were & are.
Thought this post elsewhere was spot on:
Quote:
The problems at Baylor are a born of two things:
1. A gifted football coach that puts the progress and well-being of the "program" ahead of all else. He's got a program with every disadvantage possible. He has to build it guerilla-style. He cuts corners on the character of his recruits to get athletes that can compete with the big boys. When a rape problem emerges from that, he tries to control it, manage it. He makes decisions in the best interest of the program -- if the sole criteria is to deliver the most competitive team possible at Baylor. Unfortunately, this was done where...
2. There exists a cultural context at Baylor and in the Baptist community there that demonizes women that don't behave within a 1950s proper-Christian code of behavior. This is why you have Baylor fans saying the women were asking for it given their behavior. This is why you have Baylor fans absolving the male rapist of his responsibility in his choice to commit rape. This is why the university has no support system for females, a hand-wave at title IX, a rape problem well-beyond the football team and blood all over its hands.
The first point is easily fixed -- you fire the coach and hire their opposite (not sure if they've done the second part of that). The second point is something that can't be easily fixed, however. You can't suddenly make all these ignorant people enlightened. You have to change the University, the Waco community, the Baptist church -- all of these organizations and systems that are in place that enforce the mindset that women have to behave a certain way, very different from men, or they are courting sin and get what they deserve.
The BOR is trying to control the second problem. Manage it. Keeping the conflagration contained lest it burn down the whole University. Hide the details while they clean things up and try to effect change over time away from the public eye. So that the damage to the reputation of the beloved University is minimized. So that the university can survive.
Ironically, this is EXACTLY what Art Briles tried to do with the football program. He failed. His program is in its death throws. We'll see if the Baylor BOR fares any better.
Briles is not fit to be in the position of coaching young men or boys.
I know this isn't related to the scandal, but since it's related to Baylor, i put it here.
Anyone in this forum who is confident about playing Houston over the next few years...I recommend getting the hell out of the way of the Tom Herman train, because they will be absolutely stacked.
In recent years Houston has been a stepping stone for coaches headed to the "big leagues". It remains to be seen if Herman will stick around long until a "name" school comes calling.
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considering how they've handled everything else) because if the NCAA gets involved it's gonna come to light. Not to mention the Federal lawsuits. It's only going to get uglier the more that Baylor tries to hide and cover up what was allowed, and/or lack of institutional policies and protocol to protect students, specifically female students.
