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The fact is, Cleveland HAS declined some the last 14 years, BUT so has the entire USA.....since the trade treaties were pushed through Congress by BOTH political parties, America has lost tens of millions of jobs which can now be sent overseas. The USA is subsisting on borrowed money from China. When that ends, the result will not be pretty. So, the decline is NOT just here
The fact is, Cleveland HAS declined some the last 14 years, BUT so has the entire USA.....since the trade treaties were pushed through Congress by BOTH political parties, America has lost tens of millions of jobs which can now be sent overseas. The USA is subsisting on borrowed money from China. When that ends, the result will not be pretty. So, the decline is NOT just here
That's when new immigrants come into the picture. I don't mean the blue collar poorly educated immigrants of yesteryear who were willing to work at anything to eke out a living. That was how much of our nation was built and many of us are proud descendants of such but those days are long past. The new generation of immigrants are more likely to be well educated and rich in the pocket. They will want to buy up as much property as possible and hopefully start up new businesses that can employ people. These are the immigrants that Cleveland needs to attract and I already think from my observations that some Clevelanders realize this. To what extent has Cleveland so far attracted foreign investment is up for debate. Someone else can help me out with this.
That's when new immigrants come into the picture. I don't mean the blue collar poorly educated immigrants of yesteryear who were willing to work at anything to eke out a living. That was how much of our nation was built and many of us are proud descendants of such but those days are long past. The new generation of immigrants are more likely to be well educated and rich in the pocket. They will want to buy up as much property as possible and hopefully start up new businesses that can employ people. These are the immigrants that Cleveland needs to attract and I already think from my observations that some Clevelanders realize this. To what extent has Cleveland so far attracted foreign investment is up for debate. Someone else can help me out with this.
Not sure about Cleveland, but Dayton has been proactive in this regard (one of the few things they've done right) and so far it has netted some positive results:
I was born and raised in University Heights and had been back maybe 3 times in 30 years. Lived in Cali, No Va , Dc and now Raleigh NC. Hooked up with an old friend In Cleveland and was thrilled to see what had happened. The ride from 105th to Downtown was safe and unrecognizable. We stayed @ a B & B in University Circle that was excellent and yes the foodie options are great. The architecture and housing stock goes from suburban miserable ( my old neighborhood) to exquisite. Shaker Heights is the bomb. ANd I know folks are mentioning other neighborhoods that I dont even know about that sound intriguing. As alwasy Cleveland Art, Music etc is awesome. Downtown the R & R Hall of Fame was a blast. Frankly I have had it with living in NC and the single biggest thing that keeps me from moving to Cleveland is the weather. But people are VERY friendly in a genuine way and to me the city feels like its about to be discovered.
The qulaity of life and cost of living is very good. Yes there is still lots of room for improvement. And when folks look for a place to live it is NOT on their radar but as my buddy said when folks find what they can buy or rent compared to ANYWHERE in the NORTHEAST or the LEFT COAST they are so shocked like I was you have to seriously consider it. Go Cleveland ! You been down a long time but the best is yet to come.
FYI been back twice in a year and will return again
I was born and raised in University Heights and had been back maybe 3 times in 30 years. Lived in Cali, No Va , Dc and now Raleigh NC. Hooked up with an old friend In Cleveland and was thrilled to see what had happened. The ride from 105th to Downtown was safe and unrecognizable. We stayed @ a B & B in University Circle that was excellent and yes the foodie options are great. The architecture and housing stock goes from suburban miserable ( my old neighborhood) to exquisite. Shaker Heights is the bomb. ANd I know folks are mentioning other neighborhoods that I dont even know about that sound intriguing. As alwasy Cleveland Art, Music etc is awesome. Downtown the R & R Hall of Fame was a blast. Frankly I have had it with living in NC and the single biggest thing that keeps me from moving to Cleveland is the weather. But people are VERY friendly in a genuine way and to me the city feels like its about to be discovered.
The qulaity of life and cost of living is very good. Yes there is still lots of room for improvement. And when folks look for a place to live it is NOT on their radar but as my buddy said when folks find what they can buy or rent compared to ANYWHERE in the NORTHEAST or the LEFT COAST they are so shocked like I was you have to seriously consider it. Go Cleveland ! You been down a long time but the best is yet to come.
FYI been back twice in a year and will return again
What part of UH are you from? There are indeed some blocks that are boring and cookie-cutter, but there are also some blocks that have really unique and attractive brick colonials.
What part of UH are you from? There are indeed some blocks that are boring and cookie-cutter, but there are also some blocks that have really unique and attractive brick colonials.
Hmm I feel like UH has mostly pretty nice looking houses, old brick houses. I remember showing some friends from Europe my old neighborhood in UH and they thought it was really awesome. At least close to John Carroll and Fairmount Circle. Maybe up by Cedar-Warrensville they're kinda boring. Near a giant strip mall, afterall.
Hmm I feel like UH has mostly pretty nice looking houses, old brick houses. I remember showing some friends from Europe my old neighborhood in UH and they thought it was really awesome. At least close to John Carroll and Fairmount Circle. Maybe up by Cedar-Warrensville they're kinda boring. Near a giant strip mall, afterall.
Lived in UH for 4 years, and I walked practically every street. In general the father south you go in University Heights (and closer to Fairmount), the bigger, better, and more unique the houses become. Anything Silsby or north feels relatively lacking, although the area just around John Carroll is quite nice.
I grew up in Cleveland. In the 80s and 90s, Cleveland felt like a city with national standing...perhaps among the top 10 in importance. I used to visit relatives in Chicago, and it felt like a big Cleveland. Compared to St Louis, Pittsburgh, and Detroit, Cleveland felt more or less on par. Atlanta was in a tier below, as were certainly Cincy and Columbus.
As a kid growing up in the inner ring suburbs, I measured importance by our malls, neighborhoods, parks, museums, chain stores and restaurants, airport, highways, national media attention, etc. On all those measures, Cleveland felt important. There were obviously problems with crime, loss of industry, and population decline, but Cleveland didn't seem any worse than any other Rust Belt city. I was probably naive.
I currently live in California, and recently visited Cleveland to see relatives. I was shocked to see how stagnant the city felt. There was hardly traffic, ever. Hopkins airport felt like a regional airport. The neighborhoods felt quiet, with no new construction. Aside from Legacy Village and Crocker Park, the malls appeared raggedy and desolate. Most surprising were the people. Everyone seemed old, local, and insular. Cleveland feels like a wooded cul de sac in a blue collar neighborhood.
Returning back home, I would talk to friends about my trip back home. Surprisingly, no one had much knowledge of Cleveland, either positive or negative. Whereas Detroit is known nationally as a symbol of the Auto Industry and decay, Cleveland has no reputation. I think Cleveland has slipped out of the national consciousness, and registers in the same stream of thought as Buffalo. Even Pittsburgh seems to have more perceived importance and momentum. Somehow Cleveland feels like the largest forgotten city in the Nation.
Any thoughts on this?
Detroit is the largest forgotten city in the nation. And Cleveland is still relevant. New Orleans is a close second.
This is the thing; you live in California. Wealth on a level that far exceeds what you were experiencing and witnessing in Northeast Ohio. Plus you were preoccupied; Cincinnati and Columbus were most certainly important cities then, and on the same tier with Cleveland. I lived in Dayton for a decade; they aren't thinking about Northeast Ohio down there at all, just like we aren't thinking about anything South of Columbus in Northeast Ohio. Atlanta was never 900,000 in population, like Cleveland once was, but it was never that small either.
You may have a conflicted, if not jaded, opinion of Cleveland now. Ohio does not have LA County, with ten million people, or anything on that level. So it is an unfair comparison. I actually grew up in Akron, at awe at Cleveland, until I saw the Northeast, East, and South, and even other parts of the Midwest like Chicago. Downtown Cleveland is still rich artistically and culturally. As far as shopping malls or any of those other things that California excels at, that are not of any real importance and relevance (no place in America can compare with California on shopping malls), it is a moot point. There are dead malls all across America. The only malls that are flourishing are those that exist in the upper middle class areas. Rich people go to boutiques and stay away from malls for the most part. Rich people love "shopping districts".
Look, you have the Mall of America, which is not in California but honestly, areas like New York do not have a lot of shopping malls, not in Manhattan anyway. There is a six floor mall in the Bronx that is more of a vertical strip mall than anything. New Jersey has some large shopping malls; Xanadu was an ambitious project but I don't know if it is going anywhere or not. But that age has passed. Cleveland seems to be segmented, torn even, between Downtown, a few prosperous suburbs here and there, and the inner city, as it has always been. It isn't Cleveland that has changed, but Ohio that has changed. Columbus is now the largest city, and that age of artistic and cultural enrichment that made cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati great is lost on Columbus because they don't care about those things much there. But Columbus has what it needs, what those people there want, as does most of Ohio. But those good old days are gone. It is all LA, Chicago, New York, DC, Atlanta, Miami; all about top tier cities now, no one cares about anything else anymore. The day of the cool, hip, city of 300,000 is a distant memory.
The day of the cool, hip, city of 300,000 is a distant memory.
I quite disagree with this. Life in the biggest cities is way overrated. The number of Clevelanders moving back home from the coasts isn't negligible. Calling Cleveland a city of 300,000 is not really accurate anyway, no matter how you loook at size (city proper/MSA/CSA).
I quite disagree with this. Life in the biggest cities is way overrated. The number of Clevelanders moving back home from the coasts isn't negligible. Calling Cleveland a city of 300,000 is not really accurate anyway, no matter how you loook at size (city proper/MSA/CSA).
I never called Cleveland a city of 300,000. You inferred it from post. I was referring to cities the size of Cleveland, or smaller, that used to receive a lot more respect in the collective American consciousness. Cleveland has lost population, but it is not at 300,000, and probably will not be for some time to come.
I am glad that you disagree with it because it shows that you are an independent thinker. Most people have bought into the myth of Alpha and Beta cities, or first and second tier, even if the majority of Americans do not live in these cities. If they could afford them, I think a lot more would prefer to call them home.
You might agree with this; there has been an assault on the artistic expressions of those smaller cities, and even in cities like LA and NY, because of effects that tend to come as a result of those expressions on the collective consciousness that then creates resistance towards the NWO agenda that America is moving into. So sheep are sheep, whether they live in a city of 10 million, a metro of 30 million, or a small town of 200,000 that meets the needs of the majority of residents there. That is the real reason this country is not as funky as it used to be back in the seventies or eighties, but none of these major city apologists on C-D like to talk about this.
Last edited by goofy328; 02-16-2014 at 08:32 AM..
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I think its amazing
