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Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point (Piedmont Triad) 1.2 million
Greenville-Spartanburg 1.1 million
The Triad is actually somewhere in the 1.5M-1.6M range, and the Upstate is in the 1.2M-1.3M range. Not drastically off, but I still wanted to provide that bit of accuracy.
DC is an "East Coast" (NE) city whether you want to admit it or not.
That's your opinion, of course.
Quote:
If you took this poll to the Washington DC forum, or to Washington DC itself, nearly all of them would consider DC as NE/Mid-Atlantic rather than Southern.
I wouldn't doubt it if most DC area people on City-data are northern transplants themselves, so of course they'll say it's northeastern.
Quote:
Go to the streets and randomly ask people if DC is Southern or Northern, nearly everyone will say Northern. DC shares more similarities with the NE than the South. For one, the city has that unmistakeable NE feel, it's very connected to NYC, Philadelphia and Boston..and it's also too upper middle class and educated to be a southern city. It's very Northeast in that sense.
And the results of this poll say it all.
What is a "northeast feel". You can get that same feel in parts of New Orleans, if you're simply arguing for dense areas. You can get the same in parts of downtown Atlanta, for that matter. It isn't as if density is solely a northeastern trait, or as if northeastern cities aren't surrounded by lots of suburbs, themselves.
Furthermore, your upper middle class and educated comment is ludicrous. It's very judgmental, and is biased. I live in the South, in a southern city, and the areas surrounding me are primarily middle class to upper middle class. Most adults are college-educated. Thus, I don't see your point, in arguing that northeastern cities are home to the educated, and southern cities are not.
The Triad is actually somewhere in the 1.5M-1.6M range, and the Upstate is in the 1.2M-1.3M range. Not drastically off, but I still wanted to provide that bit of accuracy.
Thanks.
I haven't seen the latest figures, so these may be as of 2008.
In terms of gauging what is urban, census blocks are used. This isn't used to gauge a rural area.
no, the same technique is used for both, as the numbers line up perfectly. the census simply has "urban" and "rural". they way they did the numbers whatevers not urban is rural. from the numbers i looked at, if a state was 30 percent rural, it was 70 percent urban. go ahead and look it up, thats how they did it.
heres the full quote from the census (heres the link):
Quote:
Urban and Rural Classification
For Census 2000, the Census Bureau classifies as "urban" all territory, population, and housing units located within an urbanized area (UA) or an urban cluster (UC). It delineates UA and UC boundaries to encompass densely settled territory, which consists of:
core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile and
surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile
In addition, under certain conditions, less densely settled territory may be part of each UA or UC.
The Census Bureau's classification of "rural" consists of all territory, population, and housing units located outside of UAs and UCs. The rural component contains both place and nonplace territory. Geographic entities, such as census tracts, counties, metropolitan areas, and the territory outside metropolitan areas, often are "split" between urban and rural territory, and the population and housing units they contain often are partly classified as urban and partly classified as rural.
no, the same technique is used for both, as the numbers line up perfectly. the census simply has "urban" and "rural". they way they did the numbers whatevers not urban is rural. from the numbers i looked at, if a state was 30 percent rural, it was 70 percent urban. go ahead and look it up, thats how they did it.
heres the full quote from the census (heres the link):
JimmyJohn, you're incorrect.
Urban areas do not include many areas within metropolitan areas. It's how Atlanta's "urban population" is no more than four million, while the metro area is 5.7 million. It's how Dallas-Fort Worth's "urban population" is considerably lower than its 6.7 million population. The same goes for practically every metro area.
Anything that is not listed as urban doesn't mean that it is rural, as many exurban or newer suburban areas aren't classified as rural, yet they're not included in the "urban area" according to density measures.
One of the great characteristics about the northeast and mid-Atlantic is that not only is it notably urban, but also that there are so many opportunities for outdoor activities with numerous ocean beaches, mountains, rivers, lakes, forests, parks, etc. You really get the best of both worlds.
Urban areas do not include many areas within metropolitan areas. It's how Atlanta's "urban population" is no more than four million, while the metro area is 5.7 million. It's how Dallas-Fort Worth's "urban population" is considerably lower than its 6.7 million population. The same goes for practically every metro area.
Anything that is not listed as urban doesn't mean that it is rural, as many exurban or newer suburban areas aren't classified as rural, yet they're not included in the "urban area" according to density measures.
um, you can say that, but thats not what the census said. i got the numbers from them, and thats how they did it. its really pretty simple.
"the Census Bureau classifies as "urban" all territory, population, and housing units located within an urbanized area (UA) or an urban cluster (UC)"
"The Census Bureau's classification of "rural" consists of all territory, population, and housing units located outside of UAs and UCs."
urban clusters and metro areas are not the same thing. they do the urban clusters based upon block density. as it said in my earlier post, you can have rural and urban areas within a metro area.
"Geographic entities, such as census tracts, counties, metropolitan areas, and the territory outside metropolitan areas, often are "split" between urban and rural territory"
seems pretty obvious to me. the data i cited earlier, to which you responded with all this, literally had states listed as 70 percent urban, 30 percent rural. thats how it was done on the census, thats where i got the data from and thats where i got the explanation of the data from.
it couldnt be more straightforward than that. if you dont trust the census as to how they configure their own numbers, thats fine by me.
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 10-26-2010 at 09:24 PM..
It sounds like you're describing blacks in the region, who undoubtedly are southern in speech. The same thing could be said of virtually all blacks in the United States, outside of New England and other regions in which they are a very small minority, and of which black migration during the middle of last century did not occur.
In terms of gauging what is urban, census blocks are used. This isn't used to gauge a rural area. The census basically operates at the county level to determine what is rural. Any non-metropolitan or non-micropolitan areas are determined to be rural. Thus, many, many rural areas are officially recognized as metropolitan.
The South does not lack large inland metropolitan areas.
Dallas-Ft Worth - 6.7 million
Atlanta- 5.7 million
San Antonio 2.4 million
Orlando- 2.2 million
Charlotte - 2 million
Austin- 1.8 million
Raleigh-Durham -1.7 million
Nashville 1.6 million
Memphis 1.3 million
Louisville 1.2 million
Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point (Piedmont Triad) 1.2 million
Greenville-Spartanburg 1.1 million
Birmingham 1.1 million
Richmond 1.1 million
On top of this, there are several inland metros which range from 700,000-1 million, including:
Columbia
Knoxville
Baton Rouge
Let's take a look at the inland northeast metros over one million:
Pittsburgh- 2.2 million
Hartford 1.6 million?
Buffalo 1.4 million
Albany-Schenectady 1.2 million
Rochester 1.2 million
Syracuse 1.1 million
Scranton-Wilkes Barre 1 million?
Allentown-Bethlehem 900,000-1 million?
I really don't think the inland northeast has much room to argue for being filled with large cities.
Seriously, enough with this one. Of course the South has more inland metros, look at the size of it. When you compare the Northeast to the South, you just see how densely populated the Northeast is, because again, most of the population of the Northeast is in the coastal Metros and smaller but still large inland ones. And even though much of the inland isn't totally covered in cities, most of the people live in the cities and the empty areas actually have few people in em anyway. Look at the urban population percentage of the Northeastern states.
(Note these are from 2000 except NY, so it'd be a bit higher by now) ME-40% Pop-1,318,301 NH-59% Pop-1,324,575 VT-38% Pop-621,760 MA-91% Pop-6,593,587 RI-91% Pop-1,053,209 CT-88% Pop-3,518,288 NY-92% Pop-19,541,253 NJ-94% Pop-8,707,739 PA-77% Pop-12,604,767
(Also note the most rural the states are also the smallest in population by a large margin, so having much less impact and being much less representative of the whole)
Check out the map everyone's been using, I added the populations of all the states in both regions the way they're shown here. (Minus D.C. for either since that's what everyone's arguing about.)
Northeast-55,283,679 South-112,718,222
(Edit: I accidentally gave the South MO before)
Look at the enormous size difference, and yet, the South only doubles the Northeast in population. Not to be over simplistic about it, but how would all those people fit into the Northeast if most of em weren't all gathered in the cities, which most are.
Also, since some people liked using this map to show D.C. is Southern, I'm wondering where the NY, NJ, PA aren't Mid-Atlantic argument came from.
Last edited by missRoxyhart; 10-26-2010 at 09:50 PM..
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