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I'd like to see more data supporting what makes a downtown lively. For example, I know there is traffic volume studies for a cities downtown (foot traffic that is). Also, quanity of retail, resturants etc could also be a good factor.
DC's DT is anything but dead at night. 14th & K is always crowded with clubs and bars. Same goes for 19th & M & L. Connecticut Avenue south of Dupont is bustling. 7th & H (Chinatown) is alway packed. Plus during tourist season, areas along the Mall like Penn Quarters and 11th & E, F,G are buzzing with tourist.
Right. I mentioned Dupont and other areas. But I don't consider that downtown. Downtown DC, aside from a few pockets, is dead at night and on the weekends. I was just there on Saturday/Sunday, at least half of the restaurants and stores downtown were closed.
I'd like to see more data supporting what makes a downtown lively. For example, I know there is traffic volume studies for a cities downtown (foot traffic that is). Also, quanity of retail, resturants etc could also be a good factor.
to Dtown, good point about what may quantify a downtown. all center city commissions of which i am aware---those in large metropolitan areas---include retail outlets, restaurants, bars, service-oriented businesses, etc., as strong factors for healthy downtown enviornments.
Population density is one metric, but doesn't tell you the whole story of the vitality of a downtown area. Seattle has very high density neighborhoods in the immediate vicinity of the downtown area; its the more residential neighborhoods on the periphery of the city that takes the average down. If you look at the foot traffic in the downtown area along with all of the retail and attractions , it's immediately apparent that Seattle has a downtown that is pretty bustling and active for a city this size. You'd also be very surprised with Portland. You don't even have to take my word for it; use google street view to walk around DT Seattle and Portland, and then compare it to Milwaukee and Minny. You'll see what I am talking about.
First of all, Milwaukee has 20,000 people living in its Downtown, which is way more residents than Downtown Seattle. Milwaukee also has very densely populated neighborhoods on the periphery of downtown, as well as densely populated neighborhoods throughout the vast majority of the city-proper.
Secondly, why are you even responding to this when you clearly don't even know what was being discussed???
Here's the instant replay to catch you up:
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Originally Posted by nycricanpapi
I like the West Coast and the East Coast, they have so much stuff that are similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjacobeclark
No... Actually they don't. SF is an anomaly as far as West Coast cities go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt345
What about Portland and especially Seattle? They're not on SF's level, but they also offer that "East Coast urban" pedestrian-friendly downtown experience. The West Coast is more than just California.
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Originally Posted by jjacobeclark
The population densities of Seattle (7,086.2/sq mi) and Portland (4,288.38/sq mi) are much more similar to Upper Midwest cities like Milwaukee (6,214.7/sq mi) and Minneapolis (6,722/sq mi) than they are to Boston (12,561/sq mi) or Philadelphia (10,721.4/sq mi).
I guarantee you Seattle has over 20,000 residents living in the downtown core. I'm not about to get into a pissing match with Milwaukee; As I said, take a stroll through downtown Seattle on Google streetview, and you be the judge. I saw the whole conversation with you and Matt345 before I replied to you, I don't even see how that is relevant.
I guarantee you Seattle has over 20,000 residents living in the downtown core. I'm not about to get into a pissing match with Milwaukee; As I said, take a stroll through downtown Seattle on Google streetview, and you be the judge. I saw the whole conversation with you and Matt345 before I replied to you, I don't even see how that is relevant.
there is a report from the brookings institute which lists the top 50 metropolitan downtown districts. the latest year is for 2007. i reviewed it last week. it can be found on-line, but i will try to find it and post. off hand, i remember seeing new york city, it was ranked as #1. the surprising information was the numbers for the largest downtowns. new york city was the only city w/ a population over 150,000. chicago was #2, boston, philadelphia, and so on. one of these larger cities had a resident population of 77,000. i just cannot remember all of the numbers. denver had a pretty small number, as did houston, dallas---atlanta had about 30,000+, san franscio may have been in the low 70's. it is an interesting list. the report goes into a great deal of detail about the identified parameter of downtowns. again, new york has the largest---between 5-6 hundred sq miles, one large city had a downtown area of 3.3 sq miles, but a large, dense population. again, i will locate the report.
And you need to post a link showing that Milwaukee has 20k people living downtown - that is just unheard of for a city like that. There are less than 15k living in downtown seattle. More people live in downtown Milwaukee than Seattle???
Downtown Seattle: Amid the hustle and bustle, there's a neighborhood with feeling (http://www.seattlepi.com/neighbors/downtown/ - broken link)
Here's an excerpt from the link you provided: "This urban lifestyle is an acquired taste and not meant for everybody. Compared to Vancouver, B.C., where 50,000 people live downtown, less than 15,000 people choose to live in downtown Seattle. Residents within the core -- framed by Stewart Street, Interstate 5, James Street and the waterfront -- number less than 2,500 people."
I don't know about Seattle. Because you said downtown Milwaukee has over 20000 residents, I looked at the map and found the 53202 zip code as you pointed out. I would say this zip code covers too large an area to be called downtown. It includes the lower east side and the historic third ward, which in my opion look very suburban. It is just a large zip code.
If you go to google map and use street view, the downtown core of Milwaukee is very small. Either you go north or south within this zip code, you see it covers lots of wasteland and detached houses.
I would be more inclined to believe that a small part of 53203 may also be called downtown, but really only a very small portion of 53202 can be regarded as downtown.
Here's an excerpt from the link you provided: "This urban lifestyle is an acquired taste and not meant for everybody. Compared to Vancouver, B.C., where 50,000 people live downtown, less than 15,000 people choose to live in downtown Seattle. Residents within the core -- framed by Stewart Street, Interstate 5, James Street and the waterfront -- number less than 2,500 people."
Last edited by fashionguy; 06-05-2009 at 08:03 AM..
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